missle launcher in rino

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**epil**

i keep sing people puting missle launchers in their tatical squads who travel in a rino. i was curious about why? i only put assult/rapid fire weps in my rinos because unless im reading the rules wrong you cant fire heavy weps when you get out of a rino. But i do see alot of people puting missle launchers in rinos on army lists on this forum.

**willydstyle**

Because the point is that you stay in the rhino and use the heavy/special weapon out of the firepoint.

**Gornall**

That or you can combat squad and leave the HW off somewhere to snipe.

Even if you never fire the ML, it's free and at worst costs you a single bolter shot within 12".

**I grappled the shoggoth**

Or a single bolter shot at 24"

**Asrodrig**

I prefer to Combat Squad my Tacticals so that the Flamer Marine is in the Rhino, and the Missile Launcher Marine is on the ground, preferably camping on an objective or in a piece of terrain. That way, I can still move and shoot the Flamer from the safety of the Rhino.

**Gornall**

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:Or a single bolter shot at 24"

If you didn't move, allowing you to fire that single bolter shot, you can instead fire the ML...

**I grappled the shoggoth**

If the enemy is spread out that single bolter shot>frag missile

**Gornall**

But not better than a krak missile...

**I grappled the shoggoth**

If you are shooting a krak missile at something then either
A-you are wasting the rest of the bolter shots which means you should have taken more big guns in the first place or
B-you didnt need it in the first place, and should have spent the points elsewhere.

One is a lack of tactical abilities, the second a lack of list planning.

**Clthomps**

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:If the enemy is spread out that single bolter shot>frag missile

That is one of the dumbest things I have seen in a while....

If the enemy is spread out a single Str 8 Ap3 shot @ 48" is far better than a single Str 4 AP5 shot at 24".....

*Edit*
My post was a little late...

B-you didnt need it in the first place, and should have spent the points elsewhere.

Thats the dumbest thing I have seen..... the Misslile launcheris free...

**starbomber109**

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:Or a single bolter shot at 24"

or two bullets rather than one at 12"

Ok, so it's not much, but what are you gonna do? You have free options, why not take one? (and it's technically not free, the price of the weapon is included in the price of the squad) You've got three options, heavy bolter, multi-melta, or missile launcher. Multimelta has the unfortunate combo of heavy weapon and short range. The heavy bolter is allright, it's actually better against hordes than the missile IMHO, but the missile has a longer range and can reach out and touch vehicles from across the map...still, it's not much, but why not take one?

or hell, shell out +5 points for a plasma-cannon! Same utility, small risk, somewhat reduced range, but AP2.

Edit: also, its not like your going to move the rhino EVERY SINGLE TURN....are you?

**I grappled the shoggoth**

And as starbomber109 has proven, the bolter is the middle ground between those heavy weapons.

**starbomber109**

I suppose if you wanted to pretend they were grey hunters instead of tac marines you could take 8 guys with bolters 1 guy with a meltagun and 1 guy with a combi-melta/power fist.

**PanzerLeader**

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:If you are shooting a krak missile at something then either
A-you are wasting the rest of the bolter shots which means you should have taken more big guns in the first place or
B-you didnt need it in the first place, and should have spent the points elsewhere.

One is a lack of tactical abilities, the second a lack of list planning.

This is so false I'm not quite sure where to begin debunking it. First off, if you already bought 10 Marines (which is the minimum to buy any special or heavy weapons), then the Missile Launcher is FREE. This means your point B is completely invalid. You didn't give up any points to buy it. Its a free replacement for a single bolter.

As to point A, the bolters will damage anything up to AV 10 or T 7. So even shooting at MCs your bolters have the chance to add a wound or two to the krak missile. The frag missile gives the potential for extra hits when shooting at dismounted infantry or the krak missile gives you a ~27% chance to kill a MEQ in cover outright. Thats alot better percentage than a rapid firing bolter (~11% per shot). The only time you could consider the bolt shots "wasted" is if you are shooting at an AV11+/T8+ target inside 24 inches AND there is an AV10-/T7- target inside the threat range that cannot be more effectively dealt with by other units in your army. If you combat squad, that situation does not occur as often as you might think.

**Gornall**

starbomber109 wrote: or two bullets rather than one at 12"

This is the only disadvantage of taking a free ML over the bolter. At 12" or less if you moved, you have to fire a bolt pistol which means a single shot rather than the 2 from a bolter. Any other situation and the ML is at least as good as a bolter would have been. The HB vs the ML is another topic.

**Black Blow Fly**

Suppose you have three squads of Marines. I prefer to play the points for a lascannon since it's so much better than the ML. If you keep your heavy weapons in the transports then:

You can pillbox, shoot the HW from the safety of the transport.
Move to cover more ground if necessary.
You can select up to three different targets.

MLs are better when taken in a Dev squad since they are cheaper and you are taking up to four.

G

**PanzerLeader**

Green Blow Fly wrote:Suppose you have three squads of Marines. I prefer to play the points for a lascannon since it's so much better than the ML. If you keep your heavy weapons in the transports then:

You can pillbox, shoot the HW from the safety of the transport.
Move to cover more ground if necessary.
You can select up to three different targets.

MLs are better when taken in a Dev squad since they are cheaper and you are taking up to four.

G

Agreed. If you have the points, lascannon is generally better than ML. However, shaggoth is arguing bolter is better than heavy weapon.

**Gornall**

You guys find that the Lascannon is that much better than the ML even at the extra cost?

**I grappled the shoggoth**

if you are already paying near 200 for a shooty squad might as well take the best weapon available. Lascannon or plasma cannon are the two best options, hence increased points.

**PanzerLeader**

Gornall wrote:You guys find that the Lascannon is that much better than the ML even at the extra cost?

Yup. That extra pip of strength and AP are huge. The ability to pen AV 14 and make TEQs resort to invuls makes it much better overall. It also hits the "I negate FNP" point with the extra AP.

**Shrike78**

Gornall wrote:You guys find that the Lascannon is that much better than the ML even at the extra cost?

I would argue this one actually. It's ability to puncture 2+ saves, and the increased ease at popping light tanks makes this a worthwhile upgrade if you have nothing better to spend your points on. It isn't, in my opinion, one of those absolutely necessary upgrades, but if your army is in a position where you know that you will consistently be combat squadding a TAC squad, and in addition your army has relatively weak anti-mech punch, then it would be worthwhile.

**I grappled the shoggoth**

Plasma cannon is the best in my book. Adds strength that is much needed. Its still decent against light armor. But its not as expensive as a lascannon while retaining that AP2. And can blow away infantry better then any of the other options. I used to run a dev squad with 4 plasma cannons, combat squad it up and just eat apart squads.

**tjkopena**

I usually run a mix of plasma cannons and missile launchers in my tac squads. The 5 pts aren't worth it for units that are moving a lot (Tacs coming down in drop pods, e.g.), but it's pretty good for camping out. That said, I find the missile launcher to be a more reliable weapon against light vehicles than the plasma cannon. My gut feeling is the math should be fairly similar, but it just feels like the plasma cannon scatters off vehicles more than the missile launcher misses. Your mileage may vary. Lascannons I don't take because I hopefully have enough other anti-mech going on (and I dislike the lascannon model a lot...). Heavy Bolters are cool, but I have enough sitting around between Devastators and Razorbacks that I don't usually put them into Tac squads.

**lordrevege**

If a csm rhino moved 6 inches and fired it's combi-melta (melta shot), could a havok squad inside fire a missile launcher?

**willydstyle**

lordrevege wrote:If a csm rhino moved 6 inches and fired it's combi-melta (melta shot), could a havok squad inside fire a missile launcher?

No, embarked units count as moving if the vehicle moves at all, and may not fire at all if the vehicle moves cruising speed.

**Praxiss**

But if you're doign that you may as well pop a melta gunin the same squad and get 2 melta shot on the move.

I deploy my melat equppied chosen squad for just this kind of Outflanking-melta shooting shinaigans.