Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So this has been bugging me since it got locked because I knew,

This is only partially correct - the bolded section would only be correct if it specified that the Allies are counted as a seperate army.

Note that the phrasing doesn't refer to Space Wolves HQs - the exact wording is "In a Space Wolves army, each HQ 'slot' allows you to take up two [sic] HQ choices' - word for word, including the typo. In the Daemonhunters army, it specifies that "Daemonhunters units can be included as allies in... Space Wolves" - they are taken in the army, and therefore can be taken as half an HQ choice, as per "Two HQ choices per 'slot' " bonus. However, the restriction on the number of HQ choices from the Daemonhunter codex stays as-is, so there can still only be one Daemonhunter HQ choice out of four total HQ choices.

So the following is legal:

HQ 1a: Wolf Lord
HQ 1b: Rune Priest

HQ 2a: Bjorn the Fell-Handed
HQ 2b: Grey Knight Hero

However, this is not:

HQ 1a: Wolf Lord
HQ 1b: Rune Priest

HQ 2a: Ordo Malleus Inquisitor Lord
HQ 2b: Grey Knight Hero

was wrong, but I really didn't have any proof to discredit it, until now.

Now, the previous argument boiled down to that a Space Wolves Army with allies is not a Space Wolves army so therefore would not benefit from the HQ* rule of Leaders of the Pack. This is upheld when you read the SPACE WOLVES ARMY LIST in it's entirety instead of nitpicking just the "*The Leaders of the Pack" rule.

1. Directly under the heading of the page,

The following army list enables you to field a Space Wolves army and fight battles using the scenerios included in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.

The emboldened text by me clarifies what constitutes a "Space Wolves army", ie, "the following army list". "The following army list" does not contain any a DH or WH HQ choices so therefore they are not considered part of a Space Wolves army.

2. Under the heading, USING THE ARMY LIST:

The Space Wolves army list is split into five sections: HQ, Elites, Troops, Fast Attack, and Heavy Support.

Using the definition of what a Space Wolves army list is above in note 1, there is no DH or WH HQ choices in the Space Wolves army list, only Space Wolves HQ.

3. Under the heading STANDARD MISSIONS, *The Leaders of the Pack:

In a Space Wolves army, each HQ "slot" allows you to take up two HQ choices. This means in a standard mission a Space Wolves army may take one, two, three, or even four HQ choices.

The Space Wolves army, as defined by note 1 above and the HQ defined as note 2 above do not contain ANY WH or GK HQ choices.

So, I have presented quoted rules from the Space Wolves codex that shows exactly what constitutes a "Space Wolves army" and that by the definition of said "Space Wolves army", the Leaders of the Pack rule only applies to HQ choices in a "Space Wolves army".

Flame war will ensue, this does not provide any additional information to the topic that was locked before.

I disagree with you, I think you are just searching for limitations that dont exist. but it doesnt matter, because this is the internet.

Does it say anywhere in the book you can even TAKE allies? No.

WH/DH may be able to take allies, but you're now using THEIR codex for the main rules, such as HQ slots. This is pretty obvious IMHO.

Actually, I read the thread several times and while the point was made that DH or WH HQ are not part of a Space Wolves army, no one actually could prove it. So I read the codex, specifically the page in question, and now present proof of what is defined as a Space Wolves army, which does not include DH or WH HQ choices, and therefore does not make them eligible to use The Leaders of the Pack.

Gwar! needs to get his fuzzbutt in here and deal with this mess with his seemingly omniscient view on such matters. >: D

Lorgar's_Blessed wrote:Gwar! needs to get his fuzzbutt in here and deal with this mess with his seemingly omniscient view on such matters. >: D

Gwar actually put the thought in my head in the original topic, I just found the quotes to support it.

Good show Brother!

Though I suspect the Mighty Lock of Doom to be soon waged upon this thread.

Again though, the DH/WH codex says that they can be taken "in" a "Space Wolves" "army"

as in, they are part of a Space Wolves army, which can take 2 HQ choices for each slot.

Given that the previous thread didn't actually get anywhere with this, I'm not seeing a great deal of point in continuing this right now.

(Frazzled note) Well as Insaniak locked just as I was posting the required Closure pic I'll just hijack his!