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There's a local tournament coming up and i was hoping to have a solid list to take. I've only played 1500 point games and have been in one tournament, so any thoughts and feedback would be welcomed.

1850 Pts - Space Marines

Troops: Tactical Squad
9 Tactical Squad (Meltagun; Multi-Melta)
1 Sergeant (Combi-Meltagun; Power Fist)
1 Rhino

Troops: Tactical Squad
9 Tactical Squad (Meltagun; Multi-Melta)
1 Sergeant (Combi-Meltagun; Power Fist)
1 Rhino

Troops: Scout Squad
5 Scout Squad @ 116 pts (Camo Cloaks; Sniper Rifle x4; Missile Launcher)
1 Sergeant (Camo Cloaks; Sniper Rifle)

Elite: Terminator Assault Squad
4 Terminator Assault Squad @ 450 pts (Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield x4)
1 Sergeant (Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield x1)
1 Land Raider Redeemer (Multi-Melta; Flamestorm Cannons x2; Twin Linked Assault Cannon)

HQ: Space Marine Librarian
1 Space Marine Librarian @ 140 pts (...in Terminator Armour; Null Zone; The Gate of Infinity)
1 ...in Terminator Armour (Psychic Hood; Force Weapon; Storm Shield)

Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron
1 Land Speeder Squadron (Heavy Flamer x1; Typhoon Missile Launcher x1)

Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron
1 Land Speeder Squadron pts (Heavy Flamer x1; Typhoon Missile Launcher x1)

Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron
1 Land Speeder Squadron pts (Heavy Flamer x1; Typhoon Missile Launcher x1)

Heavy Support: Predator
1 Predator (Twin Linked Lascannon; Lascannon (each side))

Heavy Support: Vindicator
1 Vindicator

Heavy Support: Thunderfire Cannon
1 Thunderfire Cannon

The two tac squads support the terminators with extra melta fire or as fodder.

Libby for the hood and null zone. Terminator armor with storm shield so he's a little tougher to kill.

Scout squad holds the home objective.

Speeders hunt MC, transports, or infantry.

Pred hunts MC or transports.

Vindicator for the big scary pie plate.

Thunderfire Cannon to weed-out troops that hide in cover.

Thanks for reading!

For an 1850 point game I see 8 models that can handle hand to hand. Your termi's can do well, but what happens when you have CC on multiple fronts. i would also recomend giving a multi-melta to one of your speeders, they are great for swooing into range and taking on armor. Lastly haveing only three scoring units can make it some what diffucalt to win objective games. My observation from tournement play is first two turns focus on the big killy threat amd turns 3 and 4 focus on the scoring units. It's a good flavorfull list that will make for fun rememarble games, but only moderately competitive. I picture you win 1 game, lose 1, tie (narrow loss/win by VP)

Hope that helps

CrazyCombatCarl wrote:For an 1850 point game I see 8 models that can handle hand to hand. Your termi's can do well, but what happens when you have CC on multiple fronts. i would also recomend giving a multi-melta to one of your speeders, they are great for swooing into range and taking on armor. Lastly haveing only three scoring units can make it some what diffucalt to win objective games. My observation from tournement play is first two turns focus on the big killy threat amd turns 3 and 4 focus on the scoring units. It's a good flavorfull list that will make for fun rememarble games, but only moderately competitive. I picture you win 1 game, lose 1, tie (narrow loss/win by VP)

Hope that helps

i could drop the thunderfire cannon and vindicator for a squad of terminators (how much cc would i need?).

Fast moving multi-melta is very appealing. ugh more stuff to consider.

Looks like a very good list. But a few pointers.

Drop the twin linked lascannon on the pred. The autocannon is great as it gives you another shot over the lascannon and will help pop small transports better then the one lascannon. It will also free up points for you to spend around.

Drop the heavy flamers on the speeders. They are a complete waste on something with a missle launcher. You want them to sit back and pound things with str 8 shots. You never want them to get close.

The thing with giving them a multimelta is that your tempted on using it and this causes a problem as if they get close they are going to die. In the case of this the missile launchers are fairly useless as you have to pick one or the other.

With the term assault squad you pretty much want to have a mix of weapons in them to make them as effective as possible. The common load out for them is to drop one or two lightning claws into the units to deal with things like gaurdsmen or gaunts which strike before the hammers.

Other then that its a good looking list. It could just be a tad bit better.

As for crazy I dont agree with your combat on all fronts part. If your in that many combats that you honestly have to worry about cc you most likely have alreayd lost as your probably fighting a tooled out close combat army. The fists in the tactical units really cant stear him wrong and other hten that he cant really fit any more cc units into the army without changing how hes going to play it. WHat he has now is a good all around list which if played correctly can see him winning tournys.

What Golga said. I would consider either droping the Vindicator or taking two.
Not a bif fan of PFs on the tac squads, they do not belong in HtH. As it is of now, you are paying 12.5% for something that you really dont wanna use.

Your tacticals are all fine. I don't think scouts are required with that missile launcher they cannot really fire the sniper rifles at vehicles. I don't think the scouts are adding anything at all tbh. I would make them tacticals.

Change the land speeders to have multi meltas as well as heavy flamers and you're rocking. Speeders can only hunt light vehicles with missile launchers..

TBH I'd drop all heavy support and try and take that land raider with a second terminator unit. You'll be close on points but should be able to do it.

Ootah wrote:Troops: Tactical Squad
9 Tactical Squad (Meltagun; Multi-Melta)
1 Sergeant (Combi-Meltagun; Power Fist)
1 Rhino

Troops: Tactical Squad
9 Tactical Squad (Meltagun; Multi-Melta)
1 Sergeant (Combi-Meltagun; Power Fist)
1 Rhino

I think your wasting points on combi weapons for sgts but that's debatable

Troops: Scout Squad
5 Scout Squad @ 116 pts (Camo Cloaks; Sniper Rifle x4; Missile Launcher)
1 Sergeant (Camo Cloaks; Sniper Rifle)

Don't like sniper scouts unless you max them out and/or take Telion

Elite: Terminator Assault Squad
4 Terminator Assault Squad @ 450 pts (Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield x4)
1 Sergeant (Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield x1)
1 Land Raider Redeemer (Multi-Melta; Flamestorm Cannons x2; Twin Linked Assault Cannon)

Not a big fan of the Redeemer but your mileage may vary

HQ: Space Marine Librarian
1 Space Marine Librarian @ 140 pts (...in Terminator Armour; Null Zone; The Gate of Infinity)
1 ...in Terminator Armour (Psychic Hood; Force Weapon; Storm Shield)

Good stuff here, best HQ choice IMO

Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron
1 Land Speeder Squadron (Heavy Flamer x1; Typhoon Missile Launcher x1)

Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron
1 Land Speeder Squadron pts (Heavy Flamer x1; Typhoon Missile Launcher x1)

Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron
1 Land Speeder Squadron pts (Heavy Flamer x1; Typhoon Missile Launcher x1)

Your Speeders are having a identity crisis. Typhoon Launchers are great you can stay at range and pound Frag or Krak Rockets at the enemy but the flamer? I would take the free Heavy Bolter.

Heavy Support: Predator
1 Predator (Twin Linked Lascannon; Lascannon (each side)

As said above 60 points for a TL Lascannon is to expensive, I would either go all Dakka (AC w/ Hvy Bolters) or Hybird (AC w/ Lascannon sponsons)

Heavy Support: Vindicator
1 Vindicator

Heavy Support: Thunderfire Cannon
1 Thunderfire Cannon

I like Vindicators but I like two Vindicators even better. Thunderfires are to weak IMO, hell a hail of bolter fire can take them out.

Thanks for all the feedback!

I'll probably drop the flamers from the speeders and rethink my heavy support setup.

Here's my observations:

HQ good choice fits well with the assault Terminators who are perfectly armed don't ever bother with the LCs on assault Terminators they just make your squad weaker.

Tacticals have good if not heavy handed loadouts. Serious melta power there but possibly an over spend. Scout snipers are poor really should only be taken if you are using them as a Telion delivery system.

But you are too low on scoring unit 20 MEQs and 5 scouts won't cut it at this point level. 30 MEQs is the minimum scoring for me at this point level.

Landspeeders are a bit of a mess. Either keep them as vanilla Typhoons with the Heavy bolter and keep them at range or give them Heavy Flamer and Multimelta for agrressive threat. Having something capable of moving 12" and firing a MM can quickly spell the end of heavy armour.

Heavy support is a total mess. The pred is massively overpriced drop the turret, is 60 points for 1 LC shot a solid investment (once you factor in the loss of the 15 AC)? AC/LC preds are ace and by far the best pred loadout in terms of efficiency of points. Vindicators are also ace and the TFC again can be devastating. However none of the above work well on their own (perhaps the pred). For redunancy and duel threat you need to dump one of those options and double up on another. Pick which one you think will help this army the most.

Now with the Typhoons and melta tacs you should have enough anti-armour, particularly at short range. With the fists, snipers and hammernators and redeem you have solid anti-MEQ/TEQ however you are relatively low on anti-horde so perhaps 2 of eth TFCs and a Pred or 2 Vindicators and a Pred are your best options. The Pred does a fundamentally different thing so in this list I think you should find a place for 1 but not sure you'd get as much benefit from having 2 as you would with the other options. But if you make all the changes list above that could be different.

Eh I dont agree with you so much on running 5 hammers in the termy squad fling. Ive seen it happen enough where a unit of them will charge some gaurdsmen and they will loose 2 or 3 before they even get to attack. Its his choice in the end but id suggest at least one lc.

Eh I dont agree with you so much on running 5 hammers in the termy squad fling. Ive seen it happen enough where a unit of them will charge some gaurdsmen and they will loose 2 or 3 before they even get to attack. Its his choice in the end but id suggest at least one lc.

Don't charge a blob squad of guardsmen with Terminators! Even with the LCs you are onto a loser at best you'll just be tarpited for the rest of the game.

LCs are only better than Hammers against horde but assault Terminators suck against hordes no matter how you arm them even with all LCs. You want them fighting Nobz, MCs and the like where the LCs will cost you. If you're not picking the right targets for them then that is your bigger issue not the fact you haven't weakened the squad by taking some LCs...

I do take a mix of claws and hammers for my assault terminators, works well. I did charge a blob of guard once before, that was fun hacking them down lol.

Flingit has some solid advice.
For the HS Id go with two vindis and one AC/LC pred.
Drop the Termie armour on the libby and keep him in the LR at all time.

Drop all the extra equipment on sarges, tacticals DOES NOT belong in HtH.

Change the LRR to a LRC.

With the remaining pts, take a tactical squad with ML and flamer and a razorback with TL assault cannons.

FlingitNow wrote:

Eh I dont agree with you so much on running 5 hammers in the termy squad fling. Ive seen it happen enough where a unit of them will charge some gaurdsmen and they will loose 2 or 3 before they even get to attack. Its his choice in the end but id suggest at least one lc.

Don't charge a blob squad of guardsmen with Terminators! Even with the LCs you are onto a loser at best you'll just be tarpited for the rest of the game.

LCs are only better than Hammers against horde but assault Terminators suck against hordes no matter how you arm them even with all LCs. You want them fighting Nobz, MCs and the like where the LCs will cost you. If you're not picking the right targets for them then that is your bigger issue not the fact you haven't weakened the squad by taking some LCs...

So in a gaurd army what are you suppose to charge when youv popped all the transports? The few scatterd tanks or the wall of gaurdsmen between you and the tanks?

Short sighted you are. Take the lightning claws you must.

Why don't tac squads belong in hth? I know i shouldn't run them up against any real assault unit. Against MEQ a power fist is the only thing they have that can save them and anything less then MEQ i would think they would do quite well.

Anything less than MEQ they dont need the PF, anything more they get butchered either way. Atleast thats how I see it. A PF is simply too costly imo.

Ootah wrote:Why don't tac squads belong in hth? I know i shouldn't run them up against any real assault unit. Against MEQ a power fist is the only thing they have that can save them and anything less then MEQ i would think they would do quite well.

Because they only have 1 attack. They're not combat specialists but can hold their own.

Anything less than MEQ they dont need the PF, anything more they get butchered either way. Atleast thats how I see it. A PF is simply too costly imo.

It is not about winning the combat a PF does have a big effect on the damage that the squad does in combat. Remember a marine squad is a bit of a tarpit as they have power armour an ATSKNF so in multiple rounds of combat hitting with that hidden fist is a real boon. Against some assault units like Scout for instance it can be the difference between winning and losing and against something like assault marines and a chappy it gives you something that can ID that IC which can really give the opp a bad day.

Without PFs that tac squad is such an easy target for even light assault troops that fist gives it a bit of a scare factor.

In terms on LCs on the hammernators if you're up against Guard. Send the Hammernators against his tanks if he's just going for a wall of bodies then assault them with your marines. Even if you have LCs in the squad you still strike 2nd with all your guys anyway as you still don't have grenades and will lose even more as your invulnerable save is worse.

So the only benefit is if you wade in a guard blob squad that is out in the open... And if you're opponent is dumb enough to leave his blob squads out in the open then you have no worries anyway!