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So i was theory crafty with a few friends today after one of them was telling us the new Nids rules. Which btw some of them are very wtf? But we came across the rule os poisoned weapons wounding on a 4+ Okay so this doesnt seem too bad against most unit types. But if you think about it. against something really big and NOT biological, say a Wraithlord? or perhaps something that has no bloodlfow like an avatar. How the hell can poison effect these types of units? its stupid. a Nightbringer being taken down by a few measy gaunts because of a 4+ auto wound? when they normally couldnt do a thing. or against any necrons who have no immune system to effect.

My question put forth is: Do you think Poisoned weapons should affect a unit like i've mentioned? if not would house rules be fine to say they don't do anything. in other words wound as normal. would it throw balance out? i can't see that it could.



EDIT: would it even make more sense that poisoned weapons add +2 strength so then they still can't hurt really big tough units as easy as they can a friggen ripper swarm.

"Poison weapon" is not just limited to actual poison which seems to be your main complaint.

Fluff wise it is assumed that they change up to acid round or some such against enemies not biological.

No. Nonono, no, nononono.

But even as a rules standpoint it seems a little stupid. I mean sure they wont come up against massive units like that often but with a full unit of Hgaunts with the upgrade for 2pts a model. thats a stupidly lethal unit that really isnt scared of charging anything at all. i can't really see a way the upgrade is balanced out. they gain a +1 to wound on standard T4 units. fair enough thats a good upgrade. but then against something with T8 just seems a little silly that a unit everyone else is scared of can be taken out so simply by a unit of say 20 gaunts.

Maybe i'm missing something here but to me that seems a little unbalanced.

So basicly you want to change the rules because you can't keep gaunts away from your MCs? Refer to my previous post.

ZeroSum wrote:But even as a rules standpoint it seems a little stupid. I mean sure they wont come up against massive units like that often but with a full unit of Hgaunts with the upgrade for 2pts a model. thats a stupidly lethal unit that really isnt scared of charging anything at all. i can't really see a way the upgrade is balanced out. they gain a +1 to wound on standard T4 units. fair enough thats a good upgrade. but then against something with T8 just seems a little silly that a unit everyone else is scared of can be taken out so simply by a unit of say 20 gaunts.

Maybe i'm missing something here but to me that seems a little unbalanced.

This isn't a YMDC thread really, you should add trhis to General or rules dev.

If you cant figure out how to keep T3 6+ save creatures away from your MCs, I suggest you find out.

I don't have or take any MCs =P i'm not being butthurt. i think it's a pretty good question.

It could be acidic. it doesn't have to be poisonous.

Otherwise, how is it supposed to penetrate terminator armour.

Fluff =/= Rules. Sorry, that's how Poisoned weapons work.

It's not just Tyranids who get these kinds of weapons either: Sternguard ammo, DE Agonizers, Doks Tools, etc. Feel free to play with whatever House Rule you like, just remember that you're putting an unfair and unwarranted restriction on those who use these units.

Perhaps it's an unfair retriction via houserules, but he raises a point.

Posioned weapons, via fluff, shouldn't affect MC's or Necrons.

Acidic weapons I guess maybe, but it's a bit silly that such a cheap unit can pretty much ignore toughness and autowound...although I'm sure nids players dont see it that way.

Then again, it gives nids a foil to armies who use just a few MC's and no shooty. And in a game like this one, everything needs to have a hard counter. 20 gaunts with 4 points cost extra per model that get shot up and die to some shooty before even entering melee is a big point sink.

Warhammer chess indeed.

Thunderfrog wrote:Perhaps it's an unfair retriction via houserules, but he raises a point.

Posioned weapons, via fluff, shouldn't affect MC's or Necrons.

Acidic weapons I guess maybe, but it's a bit silly that such a cheap unit can pretty much ignore toughness and autowound....

More silly than living tanks that can fly or undying, semi-intelligent robots that worship being that used to eat stars? You are playing a game based on suspension of disbelief, a special rule keyword shouldnt give you any trouble. Wounding of 4s is also far from auto wounding.

Regardless, you can justify anything by fluff:

So armies with poisened equippment, knowing what foe thay are going to be fighting, moddify their stuff slightly. Instead of virulent neuro-toxin that they would use of TMCs they come up with. Very cold weapons, such as liquid nitrogen or helium bolts, would probably do nasty things to an avatar. Weapons that create psychic fields would mess up the spirits controlling a wraithlord. Weapons that generate electrostatic or magnetic fields are likely to disrupt necrons pretty serverely.

or that a DE with scissorhands get an extra attack and wounds your wraithlord ona 2+, i mean thats just part of the game. Frankly i find it absurd that a daemon forge is sitting around turning perfectly good daemon princes into soulgrinders or that orks technology is advanced enough to give their vehicles a 4+ force field cover save but somehow techmarines haven't thought of that...but thats how the rules work!

True enough.

I gotta ask though, where did your sig come from? That's pretty intense.

wileythenord wrote:or orks technology is advanced enough to give their vehicles a 4+ force field cover save but somehow techmarines haven't thought of that...but thats how the rules work!

WOW... I never thought of that before. I find that humours.

Poisoned weapons are mostly FOR MCs/high T models, or at least how they get used. I don't think it's bizarre. Small amounts of snake venom can kill a man (we're monstrous creatures to them), so I have no problem believing some chemically engineered super poison could hurt a carnifex. It might be a little wonkier to call it "poison" against the unliving, like a wraithlord, but as said above, just consider it acid or something and it's moot.

Depends what Monstrous Creature. Poison would definitely hurt a Cranifex for example but how could poison harma Wraithlord which is a soul/ghost in bone armor. How is that possibly poisoned? Maybe things like the Warithlord or other things like that should have rules making them immune to poison more often then models commonly do at the moment.

Poisoned is just the umbrella term for it all.
Space marine hellfire rounds are a bio-acid that eats through everything and were designed to bring down big ol tyranids. It would be unfluffy to make monsterous creatures immune to "poisoned" weapons.

ZeroSum wrote:How the hell can poison effect these types of units? its stupid. a Nightbringer being taken down by a few measy gaunts because of a 4+ auto wound? when they normally couldnt do a thing. or against any necrons who have no immune system to effect.

Lol i discredit your argument the second i read this. Gaunts should never be in cc with a Nightbringer. Nightbringer has etheric tempest. And by fluff standards, nothing should ever be able to destroy the nighbringer.

As for otherthings such as avatars and wraithlords, there is no reason poison shouldnt affect them. Poison is just the umbrella term GW has picked.

From a fluff standpoint there are very few things which should be affected by poison. Daemons are simply masses of energy split off from the chaos gods, why should they be affected by poison? And anything devoted to nurgle shouldnt be affected by poison. Point is fluff does not equal rules. While i do believe rules should aspire to equal fluff, to strictly follow this wouldnt really be fun.