Ork speculation/chat - [new rumour p75 and in OP-Clan Warlord Traits]

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**JimOnMars**

geargutz wrote:
i chose the traktor kannons becasue from what ive seen they are by far the best option for mekguns. if mekguns are not going to get any clan trait then we might as well pick the best wargear. autohitting at 48inches with an anti tank wpn sounds realy good to me. but this is still based on the knowledge from the reviews, i might change my mind when i get the codex.

Yes, but why just autohit with anti-tank when you can do better?

Autohit generates 1.00 hits at AP-2.

Smasha Guns generate 1.16 hits (because of DDD) at AP-4. Except against flyers or other -1 to hit.

Smashas wound better on T6 or less, Traktors T7 or higher...although the difference is minor.

Biggest difference is the price.

**Billagio**

Arnt Smasha gunz also significantly cheaper than Traktors also?

**Daedalus81**

Billagio wrote:
Arnt Smasha gunz also significantly cheaper than Traktors also?

16 to 30, yea.

**geargutz**

so i have the november whitedwarf. and there is an battle report between tau and codex orks. this post is for those who haven't read it yet or those who want to discus it.

here are the lists (was done in PL, no wargear was listed)

Spoiler:

its a kustom scenario. there is a mekshop on the board and the orks only have to get 1 of 2 secret ork vehicles to use the mekshop and then make it to the tau's board edge and they would win (the 2 secret vehicles were the battlewagon and the squigbuggy).

so, the ork player has his flyers in reserves, everything else deploys in transports on the line...and his wartrike is the closest model as far as i can tell. luckily the orks had 1st turn. all ork units rush forward. despite being badmoons the ork player focuses on speed...im not kidding.

the article said this "the orks gave little thought to shooting the tau, preferring instead to drive straight at them." this is not going to go well.

tau 1st turn was spent mostly shooting at the warttrike since the the ork player charged it as far as possible towards the tau gunline.with the combo of a 4up invul and a 5up fnp the wartrike suffered a whole round of shooting from half the tau army. very survivable but only had 1 wound left. ended up killing himself from overwatch in the charge in the next turn.

the next few turns go like this. tau shoot, things die, ork player does little to keep his units within the range of the 2 kffs he has. he gets a few units in combat and or course he wrecks because hes fighting tau. alot of the orks shooting is focused toward the worst units to try to shoot at...all the stealth suits/ghostkeels.

ork player is able to get one of his surviviing secret vehicles in contact with the mekshop (squigbuggy) but since the objective is to use the mekshop then the squigbuggy had to spend a turn doing nothing and thus got shot up when the tau player could deduce that was the secret ork vehicle.

end of round 5. well, no surprise the ork player is almost tabled. tau win.

some thoughts. ork player obviosly wanted to play evilsunzs but badmons was the only things availabe at the studio that also had all the new buggies to test out.

tau players most valuable model was the stormsurge.

orks players mvp was the wazbom blastajet.....no surprise the only thing that performed well was a shooting focused unit in a badmoons list...and the tau never shot at it. (it killed a ghostkeel after its drones were destroyed, and it chipped off the last wounds on a riptide).

i dont remember any mention of any ork stratagems used in the whole battle report, not surprising since technically he barely had any cp. all the while they talked about the tau player using cool tau strats.

so yet again a battle report that utterly fails at hyping me up for the orks. without utilizing any stratagems and barely using the clan trait it was like index orks with some new models and some pts decreases vrs codex tau played by an obviously more competent player.

**Booger ork**

Just a note on that, he was correct to get 5CP due to the +3 for being battleorged

**tneva82**

JimOnMars wrote:
geargutz wrote:
i chose the traktor kannons becasue from what ive seen they are by far the best option for mekguns. if mekguns are not going to get any clan trait then we might as well pick the best wargear. autohitting at 48inches with an anti tank wpn sounds realy good to me. but this is still based on the knowledge from the reviews, i might change my mind when i get the codex.
Yes, but why just autohit with anti-tank when you can do better?

Autohit generates 1.00 hits at AP-2.

Smasha Guns generate 1.16 hits (because of DDD) at AP-4. Except against flyers or other -1 to hit.

Smashas wound better on T6 or less, Traktors T7 or higher...although the difference is minor.

Biggest difference is the price.

The -1 hit difference is big and T6 or less...That's not really the target you would generally be aiming for except when talking about flyers. Orks needs help either dealing with chaff to clear them on T1 for deep strikers or big tough things like knights.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Booger ork wrote:
Just a note on that, he was correct to get 5CP due to the +3 for being battleorged

Ditto for tau. 5+3+1 from trait=9.

Either way what a joke battle report! WD reports generally aren't useful but sheesh this was pretty spectacular lowball with scenario that was custom made to ensure orks lose. Pretty much any army would lose with that scenario when facing shooty army...Especially shooty army with long range guns(army that relies on 12" shooting would be bit easier).

So much for GW rigging WD battle reports so that new army always wins

(which is albeit dubious claim. When I bought every WD in early 2000's for several years I kept track and came up pretty much dead even did newest army(or army with newest big release) win or not. Albeit non-wins also included draws)

Custom scenarios fun but this one was abysmally bad even for GW standard and they aren't good scenario designers as the rulebook scenarios show. But even then one would have expected better. And then add in painted model issue(studio army being bad moon which is bad clan for this scenario) and need to fit every new buggy and...well result was foregone conclusion.

**fe40k**

geargutz wrote:
so i have the november whitedwarf. and there is an battle report between tau and codex orks. this post is for those who haven't read it yet or those who want to discus it.

here are the lists (was done in PL, no wargear was listed)

Spoiler:

orks,batalion detach,badmoons,5cp
=wartrike,super cybork body,warlord trait-the best armor teeth can buy
=bigmek in megarmor,kff
=boyz,3 groups of 10
=3 trucks
=meganobz x5
=meganobz x4
=1 boosta blasta,1 shockdragsta,1 snazzwagon
=1 battlewagon
=1morkanaut kff,1 gorkanaut
=dakajet
=wazbomblastajet witj smasha gun and tellyport blastas
auxilary detachments,-3 cp
=1scrapjet,1squigbuggy,1bonebreaker
145 PL total, said the he had 5cp total but because he brought 3 aux detachments he should've only had 2cp

tau,battalion detach,viorla sept,5cp (i wont bother with all the details of tau list)
=commander in crisis suit (warlord)
=etherial on hover drone
=2x firewarrior breacher teams of 10
=firewarrior strike team of 10
=devilfish
=x3 crisis suits
=x3 crisis bodyguards
=riptide with the high output burst rifle
=x2 ghostkeels
=firesuit marksman
=x2 boradsides with rail guns
=hammerhead gunship with railgun
=3 sniper drones
superhvy aux detachment
=stormsurge
143 PL, 9cps (had a warlord thing that gave 1 extra cp, not sure where the others came from)

its a kustom scenario. there is a mekshop on the board and the orks only have to get 1 of 2 secret ork vehicles to use the mekshop and then make it to the tau's board edge and they would win (the 2 secret vehicles were the battlewagon and the squigbuggy).

so, the ork player has his flyers in reserves, everything else deploys in transports on the line...and his wartrike is the closest model as far as i can tell. luckily the orks had 1st turn. all ork units rush forward. despite being badmoons the ork player focuses on speed...im not kidding.

the article said this "the orks gave little thought to shooting the tau, preferring instead to drive straight at them." this is not going to go well.

tau 1st turn was spent mostly shooting at the warttrike since the the ork player charged it as far as possible towards the tau gunline.with the combo of a 4up invul and a 5up fnp the wartrike suffered a whole round of shooting from half the tau army. very survivable but only had 1 wound left. ended up killing himself from overwatch in the charge in the next turn.

the next few turns go like this. tau shoot, things die, ork player does little to keep his units within the range of the 2 kffs he has. he gets a few units in combat and or course he wrecks because hes fighting tau. alot of the orks shooting is focused toward the worst units to try to shoot at...all the stealth suits/ghostkeels.

ork player is able to get one of his surviviing secret vehicles in contact with the mekshop (squigbuggy) but since the objective is to use the mekshop then the squigbuggy had to spend a turn doing nothing and thus got shot up when the tau player could deduce that was the secret ork vehicle.

end of round 5. well, no surprise the ork player is almost tabled. tau win.

some thoughts. ork player obviosly wanted to play evilsunzs but badmons was the only things availabe at the studio that also had all the new buggies to test out.

tau players most valuable model was the stormsurge.

orks players mvp was the wazbom blastajet.....no surprise the only thing that performed well was a shooting focused unit in a badmoons list...and the tau never shot at it. (it killed a ghostkeel after its drones were destroyed, and it chipped off the last wounds on a riptide).

i dont remember any mention of any ork stratagems used in the whole battle report, not surprising since technically he barely had any cp. all the while they talked about the tau player using cool tau strats.

so yet again a battle report that utterly fails at hyping me up for the orks. without utilizing any stratagems and barely using the clan trait it was like index orks with some new models and some pts decreases vrs codex tau played by an obviously more competent player.

Welcome to how GW play testing works.

**DoomMouse**

tbh if you're taking three traktor cannons you may as well take a fair few more. Otherwise they'll be ignored by non-flier armies and instrantly focused down against eldar and friends.

Just to clarify are smasha guns now D3 shots and still D6 damage? If so that's pretty imperssive.

**tneva82**

DoomMouse wrote:
tbh if you're taking three traktor cannons you may as well take a fair few more. Otherwise they'll be ignored by non-flier armies and instrantly focused down against eldar and friends.

Just to clarify are smasha guns now D3 shots and still D6 damage? If so that's pretty imperssive.

The flyer bonus is not THAT big difference that non-flyer army can just ignore it. The difference is basically 1 point of damage more per gun that you can rely on.

**koooaei**

It's more than 1 point most of the time. Especially from a psychological pov.

**tneva82**

koooaei wrote:
It's more than 1 point most of the time. Especially from a psychological pov.

It's 2d6 pick highest right? That's same as melta which is 4.5 average(tad under but 4.4xxxxx can be averaged to 4.5 for sake of clarity). 4.5-3.5=1.

**addnid**

Daedalus81 wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
RedNoak wrote:
An Actual Englishman wrote:
As far as competitive play

BAD MOONS - Battalion
Big Mek, SAG [84]
Weirdboy [62]
2 x 10 Lootas [340]
3 x 10 Shoota Boyz [210]
3 x Traktor Kannon [135]

SNAKEBITES - Battalion
Warboss [78] - Warlord - Fearless Gretchin
Weirdboy [62]
3x30 Gretchin [270]

EVIL SUNZ - Spearhead
Wartrike [120]
Gorkanaut [311]
Gorkanaut [311]

The wartrike allows the morka/gorkanauts to charge after having advanced right ? If so, that is just plain huge !

**ikeulhu**

Eonfuzz wrote:
I've been thinking on it, and I think there's some really cheesy things we could do RAW with the phasing out.

So with the Index vs Codex discussion, you're allowed to take any wargear if it exists in the index (But with the codex rules). Because GW are bad at writing rules that means we can do the following:

Take 1-5 Ammo Grots with Flashgits
Take 1-5 Ammo Grots with Nobz
Take 1-5 Gretchin with Kustom Mega Guns

None of these are actually wargear options. Check the Index, they are in the unit composition section of the datasheet, which we are not given permission to differ from if there is in fact a Codex datasheet. Nice thought though, and good catch on the others.

**addnid**

Who else thinks one wartrike two morkanauts and three deffrolla battlewagon based armies may work ? I’m thinking Speed kult but perhaps snakebites (though too unfluffy for my taste) Could work too

**Daedalus81**

addnid wrote:
Who else thinks one wartrike two morkanauts and three deffrolla battlewagon based armies may work ?

Quite possibly, yea. That still leaves points for objective cappers, CP, etc. It's nearly immune to small arms fire and you can deepstrike a couple when facing multiple knights.

**techsoldaten**

Daedalus81 wrote:
addnid wrote:
Who else thinks one wartrike two morkanauts and three deffrolla battlewagon based armies may work ?

Quite possibly, yea. That still leaves points for objective cappers, CP, etc. It's nearly immune to small arms fire and you can deepstrike a couple when facing multiple knights.

There's a batrep on Miniwargaming, Orks v Orks, where one player took a very similar army. The hard counter was Dakkajets, restricting the movement of the morkanauts and battlewagons while shooting them up.

The game was very Orky and entertaining. But low-model count Ork armies concern me. Maybe I've just seen too many Green Tide lists, but Orks still need board control to succeed.

**Daedalus81**

techsoldaten wrote:
Daedalus81 wrote:
addnid wrote:
Who else thinks one wartrike two morkanauts and three deffrolla battlewagon based armies may work ?

Quite possibly, yea. That still leaves points for objective cappers, CP, etc. It's nearly immune to small arms fire and you can deepstrike a couple when facing multiple knights.

There's a batrep on Miniwargaming, Orks v Orks, where one player took a very similar army. The hard counter was Dakkajets, restricting the movement of the morkanauts and battlewagons while shooting them up.

The game was very Orky and entertaining. But low-model count Ork armies concern me. Maybe I've just seen too many Green Tide lists, but Orks still need board control to succeed.

That's pretty clever. Stormboyz should help shore that up, I think.

Their stuff is still cheap enough to bring lots of toys and boyz.

**Dakka Flakka Flame**

Forge World wrote me back to say that the mould for the Gargantuan Squiggoth had degraded to the point where the head no longer fit to the body. They have sent it back to the sculptors to see if it can be repaired, but since they don't have know how long that might take they decided to pull it from sale for the time being.

I'm excited to pick up the codex tomorrow. The codex FAQs are usually about two weeks after release, right?

**Billagio**

Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:

I'm excited to pick up the codex tomorrow. The codex FAQs are usually about two weeks after release, right?

That sounds about right. Im also really excited about picking up my codex and wartrikes tomorrow. Im kinda sick of reading all the negativity on dakka and just want to get the book in my hands.

**geargutz**

so a while back i posted some things i noticed from watching youtube codex reviews. i may or may not have the codex so i noticed there was one mistake so here is the correction.

nerf=tankbustas (8pt) reroll tohit of 1s instead on failed hits (possible mistake)

this was a mistake, tankbustas still get to reroll all failed to hits. my bad.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
just started a new thread for new codex strategies talk
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766225.page#10215663
you welcome to bring the tactics discussion there for now.
let us WAAAAAAGH!

**Nazrak**

Only had the time for a quick look before heading out but overall I’m pretty pleased with the Codex. Seems like a LOT of stuff has dropped in cost to the point where it’s viable to bring some toys without it eating too heavily into your Boyz budget. Still a bit sore about the loss of the regular KFF Mek and (especially) the Mega Armour Warboss, but there’s always the Index I guess (although it would have been nice for them to have got cheaper in line with everything else). Looking forward to trying out some of our new goodies (relics/traits/strats etc).

**ZoBo**

Huh. The warboss can now actually use that pair of sluggas he's always had strapped to his back

**lolman1c**

I know we live in the eal world where ebay exists but gw forgets that and makes the dragsta able to be in units of 3?! That would cost you £270 XD yeah, these things aren't going to be limit for ever... there is no way.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spoiler:

its a kustom scenario. there is a mekshop on the board and the orks only have to get 1 of 2 secret ork vehicles to use the mekshop and then make it to the tau's board edge and they would win (the 2 secret vehicles were the battlewagon and the squigbuggy).

so, the ork player has his flyers in reserves, everything else deploys in transports on the line...and his wartrike is the closest model as far as i can tell. luckily the orks had 1st turn. all ork units rush forward. despite being badmoons the ork player focuses on speed...im not kidding.

the article said this "the orks gave little thought to shooting the tau, preferring instead to drive straight at them." this is not going to go well.

tau 1st turn was spent mostly shooting at the warttrike since the the ork player charged it as far as possible towards the tau gunline.with the combo of a 4up invul and a 5up fnp the wartrike suffered a whole round of shooting from half the tau army. very survivable but only had 1 wound left. ended up killing himself from overwatch in the charge in the next turn.

the next few turns go like this. tau shoot, things die, ork player does little to keep his units within the range of the 2 kffs he has. he gets a few units in combat and or course he wrecks because hes fighting tau. alot of the orks shooting is focused toward the worst units to try to shoot at...all the stealth suits/ghostkeels.

ork player is able to get one of his surviviing secret vehicles in contact with the mekshop (squigbuggy) but since the objective is to use the mekshop then the squigbuggy had to spend a turn doing nothing and thus got shot up when the tau player could deduce that was the secret ork vehicle.

end of round 5. well, no surprise the ork player is almost tabled. tau win.

some thoughts. ork player obviosly wanted to play evilsunzs but badmons was the only things availabe at the studio that also had all the new buggies to test out.

tau players most valuable model was the stormsurge.

orks players mvp was the wazbom blastajet.....no surprise the only thing that performed well was a shooting focused unit in a badmoons list...and the tau never shot at it. (it killed a ghostkeel after its drones were destroyed, and it chipped off the last wounds on a riptide).

i dont remember any mention of any ork stratagems used in the whole battle report, not surprising since technically he barely had any cp. all the while they talked about the tau player using cool tau strats.

so yet again a battle report that utterly fails at hyping me up for the orks. without utilizing any stratagems and barely using the clan trait it was like index orks with some new models and some pts decreases vrs codex tau played by an obviously more competent player.

[/spoiler]

Gw players play orks like they play OP lists. They expect to just roll to win. They don't really attempt to play with any tactics at all, instead thinking ork players just charge forward. What they fail to notice is that ork players play like orks! The imperium think they just run forward and die but that's just a cunning A plan while the b plan is to run forward with the big things after then small things die and then plan c shoot um with the meks gubbinz yah paid good teef for while plan d happens which is stab um in the back! Yah gotta play sneeky!

**tneva82**

Well with that scenario it was irrelevant what orks take or how they play as they lose anyway. So might just as well go nuts

**koooaei**

tneva82 wrote:
koooaei wrote:
It's more than 1 point most of the time. Especially from a psychological pov.

It's 2d6 pick highest right? That's same as melta which is 4.5 average(tad under but 4.4xxxxx can be averaged to 4.5 for sake of clarity). 4.5-3.5=1.

People will only remember times when you roll 1-6

**tneva82**

koooaei wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
koooaei wrote:
It's more than 1 point most of the time. Especially from a psychological pov.

It's 2d6 pick highest right? That's same as melta which is 4.5 average(tad under but 4.4xxxxx can be averaged to 4.5 for sake of clarity). 4.5-3.5=1.

People will only remember times when you roll 1-6

If you pick traktor gun because of that then that means opponent will be super happy to play against you. Especially in tournaments as it's going to be easy win.

**Echeloon**

Don't know if it's the right post, but I noticed that the Start Collecting box is missing from the store. Are they going to replace it? Is the old one worth with the new codex?
Thank you in advance

**Jidmah**

I'd rather hunt down the kult of speed battleforce from last year than buy the start collecting box. You get a lot more useful models out of that.

**Billagio**

Jidmah wrote:
I'd rather hunt down the kult of speed battleforce from last year than buy the start collecting box. You get a lot more useful models out of that.

I dunno, nobz and the deff dread are pretty solid now and boyz are always good

**Grimskul**

Billagio wrote:
Jidmah wrote:
I'd rather hunt down the kult of speed battleforce from last year than buy the start collecting box. You get a lot more useful models out of that.

I dunno, nobz and the deff dread are pretty solid now and boyz are always good

Painboyz are pretty poop now though. And they ain't HQ choices.