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First off, let me make it clear that I'm not looking to take advantage any loop-holes in the rules, I'm just really not sure how these abilities interact with the rules as written and intended.

1. Onslaught is a psychic shooting attack that targets a friendly unit. Relevant wording (...psychic shooting attack that automatically hits a friendly unit within 12 inches" (codex p. 62)
2. Cluster Spines are a regular shooting attack that targets an enemy unit. (codex p. 81)
3. Monstrous creature rules state that though a MC can fire 2 weapons per turn, they must both target the same enemy unit. (BRB p. 51)

Can I buff one of my units with Onslaught and still target an enemy unit with cluster spines.

Please be as specific with your reasoning as possible and back it up with appropriate rules and page numbers from brb or codex. Thanks in advance!

I don't think they can shoot anything else if you follow the RAW. This is the only friendly shooting attack in the game that I know of.

I think it was worded that way to prevent exactly what you are proposing above.

no. You can shoot at ONE unit. if you use Onslaught, you cannot fire any other weapons as no other weapons are permitted to be used against friendly units.

Yeah, this seems pretty straight forward. Unless it is FAQ'd/Errata'd, you either get to shoot a weapon at an enemy unit or you get to use Onslaught on a friendly unit, not both in the same turn.

As above.

If you use Onslaught you have declared your target to be a friendly unit. You cannot at the same time decalre shooting at a different unit, as this breaks the rules for shooting.

Alright, I get all of that. Without trying to be difficult I'll lay out where I'm having the breakdown. Nothing in the codex or the brb stops me from targetting the marines with Onslaught. They are nominated as the target of all my tervigon's shooting attacks.

1. I declare a unit of marines in range as the target of my tervigon's shooting.
2. I work out the shots for the cluster spines and resolve them.
3. Now I use Onslaught while still targetting the marines, I make the psychic test and pass it.
4. I refer to the codex to see what onslaught does and it says the power "automatically HITS a single friendly unit within 12 inches."

I feel as though I'm satisfying all the rules for shooting as laid out in the brb and following the effects of said shooting as laid out in the codex. I'm seeing this as akin to a blast weapon that I want to shoot at 1 target but due to another circumstance, like deviation, ends up hitting some other unit.

I will ask again, if you disagree with the above PLEASE BACK IT UP WITH RULES / CODEX pages. Again, thanks in advance.

Filthy Sanchez wrote:3. Now I use Onslaught while still targetting the marines, I make the psychic test and pass it.

This is where you break the rules.

you have to be targeted to be hit. If you target your friendly unit, you can't target the marines.

I don't think you can escape that logic.

If you are really screaming for page numbers..

Page 15. the first step in the shooting phase.

Check Line of sight and pick a target.

I think we can end it right there.

I thought there is a rule in the BRB that says you can only pick an enemy unit to shoot at. Pagee 15, The Shooting Sequence point 1, last sentence. All models in the unit that can see at least one enemy model in the target unit may open fire.

Since you are targeting one of your own units, it's not an enemy model so therefore you can't shoot.

I am a newbie to the rules so I can be wrong. So if I am wrong can someone tell me page numbers and to why I am wrong.

Gannam: You do not have to be targetted to be hit. Shoot a large blast at one unit that has other units around it and roll dice such that the shot scatters onto another unit. The unit hit wasn't the unit targetted.

Davor: I AM only targetting 1 ENEMY unit. I satisfy that rule with what I'm doing. Were I trying to split fire between 2 or more ENEMY units I would agree and concede.

The disconnect I'm having is the wording of the psychic power. In theory, I could be targetting an enemy unit, a friendly unit, a die on the floor or the sun. The power specifically states that it "automatically HITS a friendly unit within 12 inches." It says nothing about nominating a friendly unit or targetting a friendly unit.

Premise 1: A = The target I've selected.
Premise 2: Weapon B automatically hits a friendly unit within 12".

Does it ever really matter what A is when firing weapon B? The result will always be the same: I automatically hit a friendly unit within 12".

I think the premise of the problem is this. To automatically hit a friendly unit you must select a friendly unit, which would be targeting. If it said automatically hits nearest friendly unit this might be different. But you must choose, which is in effect targeting. The Swarmlord has similar attacks, that automatically hit an enemy unit, he has to target to use it however.

Filthy Sanchez - except your analogy is flawed as blast weapons have an *explicit* allowance to affect the unit other than that which is targetted.

You have no such allowance here, therefore in targetting a friendly unit you cannot, at the same time, target an enemy unit.

well you don't have to believe us. Ask your local gaming circle what they think and use whatever house rules you come up with. That's the beauty of 40K.

But I can't think of any judges in a tournament that would allow this.

Read the rules for psychic shooting attack as well in the BRB. This will show you that you cannot shoot at a friendly and then an enemy in the same shooting phase

K, Going to let this die. I'm still missing something but with this many against and none for, I'm willing to concede. Thanks for the responses.

Filthy Sanchez wrote:K, Going to let this die. I'm still missing something but with this many against and none for, I'm willing to concede. Thanks for the responses.

What are you missing? It's not rules backing, as we have pointed out 5 or 6 different reasons as to why.

Furthermore, not only will the Tervigon not be allowed to shoot, he won't be allowed to assault either, since he must assault the unit he shot at.