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Kinda wondering how other treat shooting at large targets.

Do most people allow large targets to be shot at when standing behind non large targets? I assume so. The adder to this question is, do you try and get the actual LOS of the shooting unit to see if it is even possible to see the target or does your gaming group just assume it can be seen?

I'm fairly sure large targets block los of other large targets. Large targets also block los for guys on hills.
Read the los section in the rulebook.

See Page 9 Under interposing models.

Should have been more clear.

Large target is standing behind smaller troops and the opposing forces archers wish to target the LT.

Or

Friendly CC troops are in front of the archers that which to shoot an incoming LT.

Do they get to shoot or do they not. Does a normal sized unit have LOS over a like sized unit when targeting a LT for shooting, and if this is allowed, at what point do you assume the LT to be out of LOS for purposes of shooting.

frawd wrote:Should have been more clear.

Large target is standing behind smaller troops and the opposing forces archers wish to target the LT.

Or

B) Friendly CC troops are in front of the archers that which to shoot an incoming LT.

Do they get to shoot or do they not. Does a normal sized unit have LOS over a like sized unit when targeting a LT for shooting, and if this is allowed, at what point do you assume the LT to be out of LOS for purposes of shooting.

Point B) By incoming I'm assuming you mean that the LT is just moving and not charging. The Archers would get to shoot. In Fantasy we don't use True LOS, but assume that with Large Targets are "taller" than any non-LT.

What Actually blocks LOS to LTs:
*We generally treat woods as being of "unlimited" height so anything behind them is blocked as well. Buildings and other forms of terrain may be used as well in this purpose, but discuss with opponent beforehand.
*Other Large Targets

Based on your previous example. Let's say you have a unit of missile troops (archers) like a 1/4" behind another friendly unit. If a LT is within range you can see it. Let's say the same unit of archers is behind a unit of knights. Knights are taller than the archers, but the LT can still be "seen" to be shot at. Few things can block a LT which is appropriate as it's a Giant, Dragon, HPA, etc...

A nice confirmation that there are like minded people out there. What struck my curiosity was the inevitable outcome of coming up against a player that was insistent on taking the rules as written, and would not allow for any assumptions that were logically inferred from what is pretty obvious in the rules. Also your mention of the 40K true line of sight rule is a good point. I think if i reminded my fellow players that most of the heights are representative values when concerning LT and terrain, it would nix things quickly.

If you want to drive the point home for 40k crossover players is to show them the example from the book that shows the arc of visibility. I don't know what page it is, but it has some goblins, orcs, and a WB on Wyvern.

Fantasy (at this point at least) needs to be viewed from the top. With the arc of sight the only way Large targets work is if they are the exception to the rules.

We recently encountered some of the 40k-crossover problems at a tournament. A Tomb King's player said that his Screaming Skull catapult could shoot over his own troops because of its size. Granted the SSC is fairly large for a warmachine, but unless it is a LT (or on a hill) it cannot see "through or over" its own troops.

I thought about terrain in Fantasy some more this morning. I don't have the rulebook on me, but I feel that unless it is fence, hedgerow, etc... you should treat the building, woods, etc... as being of unlimited height. If something wants to claim cover from something then they better be able to fit in it, not behind it.

Slightly OT: I don't mind using felt for hills, woods, and rivers in Fantasy. A little discussion beforehand makes these easier to use than other "realistic" terrain. Granted it is not as pretty, but that's the way it is.

The only way you can't see a large target is if it's standing directly behind another large target with the same or larger base size, or if it's behind a forest.

Some people argue about hills, and there's nothing about it in the BRB that I know of, so it makes sense to me just to figure it out first so you'll know how to gameplan.

Malleus wrote:The only way you can't see a large target is if it's standing directly behind another large target with the same or larger base size, or if it's behind a forest.

Some people argue about hills, and there's nothing about it in the BRB that I know of, so it makes sense to me just to figure it out first so you'll know how to gameplan.

You're armies come equipped with UAV's and satellite cameras? Then you can't see behind hills.

@aerethan- sadly, my dwarf techies got drunk and broke my satellite camera using it to play football. However, at least in most of the games I've played, while forests are considered to be infinitely high, hills aren't.

If you think about it logically, the only thing we know about a hill is that one man-sized creature standing on it can see to shoot over another man-sized creature standing on level ground. That makes it maybe 5-6 feet high, and so something like a Stegadon or Dragon or Steam Tank or Giant would not be hidden by it. Now, obviously, it COULD still be taller, but neither RAW real-world logic says it MUST be.

So, /sarcasm please. And maybe /threadjacking, too.

Let me throw this out there:

Units on a hill can see over other units on the field, like a large target.

All units on the ground can see units on a hill, like a large target.

And now to quote Page 9: " Units on a hill can draw a line of sight from an elevated position and they can always shoot(and be shot at) over models that are not on a hill, in the same way as described dfor large targets."

SO, since LoS on a hill is THE SAME as LoS for large targets, you cannot shoot or target behind them.

Now while this seems like clear and cut, the same page mentions that LoS FROM a hill to an object should be made at model height to determine what is a clear shot. It also says that LoS issues like this should be discussed LoS issues on terrain before playing the game.

And Malleus, logic has zero bearing on rules, lest my Stegadon weapons gain 360 degree LoS.

I look forward to Nosferatu1001's response to this thread, as he tends to be right more than myself, and he often offers a perspective that sometimes escapes me.

Essentially: the rules are a mix of true LOS and "levels"

In theory forests block as high as they actually are. However most people i know play hills and forests as infinitely high - as this just helps when terrain for fantasy is, frankly, appalling compared to that available for 40k.

WHFB is heavily abstracted most of the time, looking forward to 8th where hopefully this, and the "model / bearer" issue, is sorted. Along with magic, characters, etc....