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I keep hearing how harlequins are impossible to target with ranged weapons, due to the shadowseer. I've run them a few times in games, and the majority of the time my opponent rolls his 2d6x2 and get 18" or better, and with the 5+ invul they usually die. I do have them running from cover to cover to make use of their flip belts. Am I doing something wrong?

Thanks!

chaosundecied wrote:I keep hearing how harlequins are impossible to target with ranged weapons, due to the shadowseer. I've run them a few times in games, and the majority of the time my opponent rolls his 2d6x2 and get 18" or better, and with the 5+ invul they usually die. I do have them running from cover to cover to make use of their flip belts. Am I doing something wrong?

Thanks!

Harlequins can be tricky to get into combat from across the board running on foot. However, it can be done. You're not doing anything wrong, cept maybe moving into range a bit too soon. Perhaps try baiting the enemy - and not even for the harlequins, but for another deadly unit waiting for them to close in with the harlequins. You have to realize that harlequins are a high priority target, even if they're far away - you can use that to your advantage, even if you lose the harlequins in the process.

That is one reason that I sometimes take an Avatar - not to wreck things, but to draw fire (which he does well, especially Fortuned).

puma713 wrote:

chaosundecied wrote:I keep hearing how harlequins are impossible to target with ranged weapons, due to the shadowseer. I've run them a few times in games, and the majority of the time my opponent rolls his 2d6x2 and get 18" or better, and with the 5+ invul they usually die. I do have them running from cover to cover to make use of their flip belts. Am I doing something wrong?

Thanks!

Harlequins can be tricky to get into combat from across the board running on foot. However, it can be done. You're not doing anything wrong, cept maybe moving into range a bit too soon. Perhaps try baiting the enemy - and not even for the harlequins, but for another deadly unit waiting for them to close in with the harlequins. You have to realize that harlequins are a high priority target, even if they're far away - you can use that to your advantage, even if you lose the harlequins in the process.

That is one reason that I sometimes take an Avatar - not to wreck things, but to draw fire (which he does well, especially Fortuned).

It's not a problem with him moving into range too soon, but the fact that a unit of marines in a rhino has an effective 29" range with their bolters compared to where they started the turn. Sure, it requires them to disembark, but if they're in rapid fire range they're not too likely to fail the Veil of Tears check.

Because Veil of Tears is definitely not proof against shooting, harlequins pretty much have to be used as counter-assault: using them offensively just gets them rapid fired.

willydstyle wrote:Because Veil of Tears is definitely not proof against shooting, harlequins pretty much have to be used as counter-assault: using them offensively just gets them rapid fired.

Harlequins are geared towards counter-assault, although they can effectively deal with MC's as well. Small arms and blasts are the bane of any T3 unit, Harlequins have to work around that in order to be effective. They run the chance of not getting any rending attacks, which is why adding in a Troupe master w/ PW is important, though not entirely necessary for most situations. Fusion guns are a nice add on, aside the fact that they seem overpriced, it will give you a serious edge against Termies/Nobs. It is all give and take with Eldar, Harlequins are just running a larger gap than most.

In terms of the 'veil of tears', you cannot hit them past 24", with a targeted weapon. This makes them a great nest for Farseer and the like. I happen to use both Scorpions, and Harlequins, to give me the best of both worlds. Add in DA with defend + Shield, and your counter-assaults will be very nasty, indeed.

I suggest running them with eldrad, he can put fortune on them giving them re rollable cover or invulnerable saves, and he can fortune, another or guide and doom the unit the harlequins are about to assault making the most of there rending attacks. I dont think harlequins work good on there own, but with eldrad they get really good, 2 units with eldrad is ideal as he can fortune both units plus throw out a doom.

I had a friend who used harlequins with Eldrad in a falcon. The stuff he used to do was just sick.

So yeah, if you are willing to mech up that's an option.

farseer1010 wrote:I suggest running them with eldrad, he can put fortune on them giving them re rollable cover or invulnerable saves, and he can fortune, another or guide and doom the unit the harlequins are about to assault making the most of there rending attacks. I dont think harlequins work good on there own, but with eldrad they get really good, 2 units with eldrad is ideal as he can fortune both units plus throw out a doom.

Only problem with that is that Eldrad robs them of being Fleet, one of the things that helps them advance.

The average distance on a dice roll of 2d6x2 is 14". So you need to keep that in mind.

If you do not use them properly, they will be killed rather easily with their poor toughness and bad save.

They have said above the role that harlequins excel in and that is as a counter assault unit. You keep them in the rear where they can't be targeted like Banshees and Scorpions can, and you do not have to worry about them. Then when your opponent assaults your army, you then move you harlequins up and you will kill what ever unit is bothering you.

Only problem with that is that Eldrad robs them of being Fleet, one of the things that helps them advance.

puma713 wrote:

farseer1010 wrote:I suggest running them with eldrad, he can put fortune on them giving them re rollable cover or invulnerable saves, and he can fortune, another or guide and doom the unit the harlequins are about to assault making the most of there rending attacks. I dont think harlequins work good on there own, but with eldrad they get really good, 2 units with eldrad is ideal as he can fortune both units plus throw out a doom.

Only problem with that is that Eldrad robs them of being Fleet, one of the things that helps them advance.

In addition, he doesn't have a flip belt, meaning they now have to roll for difficult terrain.

Yeah as stated 2 posts above you do not have to put eldrad in with a unit of harlequins, there are alot of options. Nuff said, I wont go into all of the variables but bye no means does a farseer have to be in a squad to give it fortune or guide.

Using them as a counter assault unit with the death jester giving the enemy the middle finger with his shrieker cannon is probably the best way to use them, unless there are some ruins in the path of their advance. Hiding behind the walls of ruins out of LoS is the only way I have been able to use them offensively without taking massive casualties.

On a side note, having to allocate to the special characters, and each of them having no better than a 5++, is goddamn terrible.

Falconlance wrote:On a side note, having to allocate to the special characters, and each of them having no better than a 5++, is goddamn terrible.

They hit at Ini 7, you really shouldn't have massive problems with that, unless you constantly risk being within 18-24 inches of targeted firepower. Harlequins are built to NOT get hit, you have literally everything you need (Shadoseer, Flip belts, FoF), to stay well out of harms way.

6" movement, 1-6" run, 6" assault. 13-18" attack range, which is more than enough for a counter-assault unit. Although it is not entirely possible to always benefit from the use of cover, it usually is. You can easily screen your Harlequins from shots, and it is not terribly difficult to make them a low priority target, against a range of 2'.

Make use of the D. Jester if you like, I have never found that upgrade particularly useful. A BS4 S. Cannon is nice, but it would have to be a rending weapon (which it likely should be) before I would really think about buying the model. Pinning is next to useless, without mass amounts of it, there really is no point even considering it's effect concerning target priority. If you are using a Alaitoc force, with lots of PF/Rangers and EML warwalkers, throwing in a couple of squads of shooty Harlequins is not a bad idea. Remember to take fusion guns as well, so the unit can really pump out solid firepower. The better choice would obviously be Warp Spiders, Harlequins can deal effectively with shooting AND assault though. Spiders assaults are generally ineffective, offensively.

Well, to answer the OP, quit playing with someone who is either that lucky or who is using loaded dice.

The odds of rolling a nine or better is 27.8%, so if you opponent is doing that a majority of the time then you have other problems.

Odds of rolling:

A 6 or higher (12" range) 72.2%
A 7 or higher (14" range) 58%
An 8 or higher (16" range) 41.6%
A 9 or higher (18" range) 27.8%
A 10 or higher (20" range) 16.7%


A lot depends upon what you are wanting your harlies to do for you tho. If you give your opponent no other targets then the harlies are going to draw fire, there is no reason for them not to shoot at them. But if your harlies are drawing a large chunk of your opponents fire while you are moving other units into position, then they are doing a fine job.


Harlies arent immune to fire, but they can be very useful with other units.


Sliggoth

Well, you could screen them by a squadron of Guardian Jetbikes if necessary.