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Hey folks,

I am looking for feedback on a 1550 "all comers" list that I plan to make using the regular SM codex. While I want this list to be capable of dealing with most threats, I do not plan to take it to tournaments so it doesn't have to be cutting edge competitive. It will most likely see play against my regular opponent who uses a CSM list and I want it to be primarily fun to play.

I plan to make this force part of the Aurora chapter, and so I wanted to play up the fluff elements that the Aurora Marines use a lot of tanks which is mainly why I went with the HQ choice below.

I know LotD are not very competitive, but I love the models. However, 10 may be a bit excessive so I am really open to pairing them down. I also wasn't sure about the 10 man Terminator Assault Squad. Is that too many? Would I be better off with 5 in the squad and an additional 5 Terminators with ranged weapons?

Having never played a SM army before I am really in the dark about how this army will work. I want something fun, a little more fluffy than game-breaking-effective, but overall something that won't completely handicap me if I decided to play a competent player.

Thanks in advance!




HQ
Master of the Forge (conversion beamer, digital weapons, power sword) 145

Troops 1
Scouts 5 troops ( camo cloaks, combi-melta, melta bombs) 105

Troops 2
Tactical Squad 10 troops (flamer, multi-melta, power weapon) 190

Rhino (dedicated transport) 35

Elite 1
Legion of the Damned 10 troops ( melta, multi-melta, power weapon) 370

Elite 2
Terminator Assault Squad 10 troops 400

Land Raider Crusader (dedicated transport) 250

Fast Attack
Land Speeder Storm 50 (Troop choice 1 deployed in this vehicle)

Total: 1545

DarkTraveler777 wrote:

HQ
Master of the Forge (conversion beamer, digital weapons, power sword) 145

Excellent. Don't forget you could put him on a Bike to give him Relentless so he can zoom back and get that golden range with the CB.

Troops 1
Scouts 5 troops ( camo cloaks, combi-melta, melta bombs) 105

I wouldn't worry about the cloaks here. If they're moving in for a vehicle kill, they're gonna be in the open anyway. Just keep them cheap so when they die, it hurts less. Honestly, these are more fun than effective.

Troops 2
Tactical Squad 10 troops (flamer, multi-melta, power weapon) 190

Rhino (dedicated transport) 35

Good enough, but not great. It's your only tactical squad, so I'd keep it simple and cheap, Flamer, Missile Launcher or Heavy Bolter, Powerfist (or at least Meltabombs/Powersword). Now, Tac x 10 - Plasma Cannon, Flamer, Powersword, Combi-Flamer, Meltabombs might also be more what you're looking for.

Elite 1
Legion of the Damned 10 troops ( melta, multi-melta, power weapon) 370

Neat! But why the Powerweapon? If you're going to spend that much on a single unit, give it the Powerfist so you can charge the vehicle if your Meltas miss. I would trim these to 5 guys, too. The models are great, but the codex cost is rediculous.

Elite 2
Terminator Assault Squad 10 troops 400

Land Raider Crusader (dedicated transport) 250

Chances are, you want these guys inside, right? Trim down to 8 Terminators and buy that boat some Extra Armor (and a Multi-Melta)

Fast Attack
Land Speeder Storm 50 (Troop choice 1 deployed in this vehicle)

I'd suggest the Heavy Flamer so you can get around that pesky BS 3. Since I see this, definitely take those Camo Cloaks off the scouts. +1 for awesome, though.

Total: 1545

Not to knock it if that's what your group plays, but everywhere around here the normal limit is 1500. Making a 1550 list to play with just anyone is going to raise eyebrows (in my area at least), and you'll end up having to drop the LSS or something else in the list. Maybe with the points left over from trimming the Terminators and LotD you can replace the Scouts/LSS with another Tactical squad, or just add another Tactical squad altogether.

DarkTraveler777 wrote:Hey folks,

HQ
Master of the Forge (conversion beamer, digital weapons, power sword) 145

Troops 1
Scouts 5 troops ( camo cloaks, combi-melta, melta bombs) 105

Troops 2
Tactical Squad 10 troops (flamer, multi-melta, power weapon) 190

Rhino (dedicated transport) 35

Elite 1
Legion of the Damned 10 troops ( melta, multi-melta, power weapon) 370

Elite 2
Terminator Assault Squad 10 troops 400

Land Raider Crusader (dedicated transport) 250

Fast Attack
Land Speeder Storm 50 (Troop choice 1 deployed in this vehicle)

Total: 1545

I, too would say 1550 is very odd, but if that's what you're going to play...go for it. I may be unclear on the max models that can go in a LRC. If it's 20 (10 termies) then I'd say
that's a good unit and 10 isn't too much, it's an annihilation unit. You just have to go for all the units you can assault and kill - keeping yourself in combat if at all possible and not
being shot up. I would go flamer/ML/power fist on the tac squad. I would drop the LotD to 5 as well or drop them altogether. in this list everything is just cover fire for a terminator
delivery system. If it doesn't perform that function or can't survive - then I'd drop it.

Just to start off i'm just giving my opinions on certain units in your army i myself am still working the kinks out of my list so here's my opinion.
1. If your taking the Master of the Forge put him on a bike
2. I don't particularly like scouts in an assault role they tend to get mowed and then slaughtered in combat
3. Take extra armor on your transports, always.
4. I take a powerfist in my tactical squads, i feel its better than melta bombs because you can use it on infantry as well as vehicles.
5. I (and i think theres a general consenses about this) believe that Legion of the Damned are too expensive and don't do much (beyond simply being uncompetitve)
6. What are your Terminators armed with? i prefer thunder hammers myself, but i would only take 5 and drop the land raider i think its a little too expensive for a 1500 list, but do get extra armor on it if you want it

The grand weakness of this list is max you only have 3 scoring units and that would be if you combat squaded your tactical squad. I'd like to actually help rather than just say whats wrong with it so what can of a list are you trying to build?

I understand your going Aurora, i don't know much about them but if your going tanks consider some predators

As a rookie SM fan myself, I think most of the vets here will say:

At 1500pt you will likely want two full rhino squads at minimum for objective games and perhaps a small infiltrating sniper scout squad.

LSS would be great- if only they could be a dedicated transport (and benefit from scout's USR's). Without it, it's a minivan.

LotD are considered overcosted. They are not much more durable than a pod tac squad. For what they cost, you could have two drop dreads or two kitted out dakka predators, both good for your armor-theme list.

Termies are great, but also typically considered overcosted. Eliminating can net you more than enough points for more drop dreads, more predators, or the like for the armor list.

Lastly, consider a thunder-fire cannon. Cheap, and If you lose the cannon, you can still have a techmarine running about fixing things.

rashad wrote:As a rookie SM fan myself, I think most of the vets here will say:

At 1500pt you will likely want two full rhino squads at minimum for objective games and perhaps an infiltrating sniper scout squad.

Termies are great, but also typically considered overcosted.

Lastly, consider a thunder-fire cannon. Cheap, and If you lose the cannon, you can still have a techmarine running about fixing things.

Not exactly 2 full rhino squads, what you need is at least 2 mobile scoring units; sternguard with kantor or 5 mans in razorbacks w/e works.
Termies are good and are expensive, but depending on the list are very worth there points. I've never played/ seen a game where they weren't worth it. I'm talking 5 man drop or landraider
Thunderfire cannons suck. They have 10 armour and when shot at 50/ 50 chance of hitting the gun. When the gun is glanced or penned its destroyed. If you really want a techmarine, buy it as an elite and save yourself 25pts

Thanks for the replies everyone. The advice is greatly appreciated!

Master of the Forge on a bike sounds like a lot of fun. Consider that done.

I didn't realize that Terminators used up two slots in a transport (makes sense due to their size) so I will be pairing down the 10 man unit to an 8 man unit.
Extra armor on the LR will also go into the list.

I really want the LotD in the list, so I think I will keep them at 5 and use the extra points to buy another TAC squad.

As for the 1550 point total I didn't realize that was an odd amount. Would 1750 make more sense then for general play? If so that will make squeezing in a few more options a lot easier.

As far as additional tanks go which would be better the Predator or Whirlwind? I figured I could ignore the anti-tank abilities of the Vindicator since I will be having so many Meltas/Powerfists in my army.

Thanks again everyone!

You'll get a lot of different opinion. All my friendly games are 1500's and I've played the majority of my games in the UK where that's also the tournament standard.
I live in the US and my best friend and I play 1500, but use 1750 and the US tourney standard of 1850 as an end goal for our armies. Many people on forums here
play tons of games in the 2k-2.5k range rather often and prefer those games. I would think even in the US 2k+ isn't really a standard though.

I think you should always start a list at 1500 and play it a few times before expanding up to more though. Not because that's my style, because when I made my list
and I am a veteran player of 10 years and multiple editions and armies, I still come up with tweaks and things along the way and decide on different units. If you make
an 1850 list as a SM player you will likely expand from the 1400-1850 range with much more armor and upgrades. That costs money. Quite a bit depending on the army.
The accordion effect at 1850 when you decide on a different approach can be drastic.

Save yourself the pain of rehashing lists or reworking playstyles after you've bought a whole army and decided that megaforce or 3 vindicators may not have been
all you thought it was.

DarkTraveler777 wrote:HQ
Master of the Forge (conversion beamer, digital weapons, power sword) 145

Troops 1
Scouts 5 troops ( camo cloaks, combi-melta, melta bombs) 105

Troops 2
Tactical Squad 10 troops (flamer, multi-melta, power weapon) 190

Rhino (dedicated transport) 35

Elite 1
Legion of the Damned 10 troops ( melta, multi-melta, power weapon) 370

Elite 2
Terminator Assault Squad 10 troops 400

Land Raider Crusader (dedicated transport) 250

Fast Attack
Land Speeder Storm 50 (Troop choice 1 deployed in this vehicle)

Total: 1545

The MoF is a nice choice but he doesn't add anything to yuor army tanks wise as he only allows you to take dreadnoughts as heavy support; which your not doing. HQ wise the MoF isn't that good, profile wise.

Scouts I cannot see the point of. They have meltas for tank hunting but camo cloaks to get a +1 cover save, but they won't be in cover when attacking tanks. Also why camo cloaks when going in a storm?

Tacticals are ok but you need more troops.

What weapons your assault terminators taking and remember you need to combat squad them down because you cannot fit 10 into a land raider, which means 5 will have no transport.

As a Marine player, your army will REALLY start to come into it's own in the 2000 - 2500 points range. I love big games since I play a mech company anyway.

1500 is decent, and 1000 points is a struggle for Marines. The way the new codex was written seems to suggest that GW wants the "sweet spot" of games to be 1500 - 2000, whereas it used to be 1000 - 1750, and 2K and up battles were considered spectacles, but too unwieldy (at least in my area). Now, Mech Vets want to play 2K plus, all the Marines want to play 2K plus, and the only folks still looking for 1500 and less is Tau and Orks. Even the Tyranids, who used to be the king of small games, have started looking for 2K+ games so they can all field THE SWARMLORD and the Doom of Malan'tai and still have room for other stuff.

My prediction is that they will scale back again after the new codex smell wears off.


@ the poster who suggested dropping the LatD:

I see what you mean, but truthfully, this is one of the best distraction units you could use to pull attention away from the Land Raider Rush. Lets forget the resilience for a second, we all know they die to massed fire just like Marines, but can save against a battlecannon, kay.

They're Relentless and have super-accurate deepstrike. A Relentless Multi-Melta or Heavy Flamer that I can confidently place inside it's sweet spot? Then it can fire on the drop turn? And keep moving (albiet slowly) while firing?

I actually really like that idea. I can't think of a single better way to turn an IG Parking Lot into a Traffic Jam Scramble. And since I drop them behind, the Scramble forces them CLOSER TO MY TERMINATORS! Muwahahahaha...

Ok OP, back to you. Rework your list, lets see a Revision B!

you are spending almost 40% of your total pts on one unit. You have no armour saturation so the LR will be shoot to pices instantly.
As have been said, LotD sucks. If you really like the models, use them as Sternguard instead.
Your scouts might get one tank in the alpha strike but then they are dead and you will be left with one scoring unit.

what i would do with your list is totaly drop the crusader as its to expensive for the size of the battle your doing and you wont be able to fit 10 termies in it as has a capacity of 16 (8 terminators)use the spare points to add in a few Preds or maybe vindi's if you prefer templates to shots. drop the scouts for another tactical squad at 10man as this allows you a max of 4 scoring units.
as every1 says lotd are to expensive to slow and you cant give them a ded transport and they have poor options, the only benefit you get is re-rolling the scatter (wich wouldnt matter if they didnt have to deep strike) and the 3++save but you find they go down to small arms fire just as easily as normal marines. i would recommend switching these for sternguard vets as they are by far the most effective small arms unit with their specailist ammo poisened 2+ to wound, 30inch range str 4 ap4 etc and only 25 points each. apart from that i cant really see much i would change apart from that, of course this is just my oppinion. Best of luck

Punctuation is not just for decoration.

OP: LotD Looks damn Cool... but Sternguard are way cheaper and do the same job better.

10 Sternguard, 2 combi meltas, Powerfist= 255 points, and have access to special ammunition on all troopers.

tedurur wrote:you are spending almost 40% of your total pts on one unit. You have no armour saturation so the LR will be shoot to pices instantly.
As have been said, LotD sucks. If you really like the models, use them as Sternguard instead.
Your scouts might get one tank in the alpha strike but then they are dead and you will be left with one scoring unit.

Good luck trying to shoot a Land Raider "to pieces instantly". Mine draws the majority of AT fire in 1500-2000 point games and it rarely ever goes down, and and never before turn 4.

GeneralRetreat wrote:Punctuation is not just for decoration.

sorry mate wil try to use less in future.

Once again, thanks to everyone who has posted so far.

Quick question regarding Terminators and Lightning Claws/Thunder Hammers. Does the squad have to be fitted with identical weapons or can there be a mix? The codex just says any model "may replace Lightning Claws with a Thunder Hammer" which leads me to believe that I can have both types of weapons in the squad. I am altering the list under that assumption but please correct me if I am wrong.


Here is the list on take 2. I dropped the LotD down to 5 models, and dropped the Terminator squad down to 8 models. I also added a third troop choice with an additional squad of Scouts kitted with sniper rilfes and camo cloaks. I figured that squad could sit on objectives/terrain features and harass my opponent.

When I bump this up to 1750 I plan on adding tanks.


HQ
Master of the Forge (conversion beamer, digital weapons, power sword, bike) 180

Troops 1
Scouts 5 troops ( combi-melta, melta bombs) 90

Troops 2
Scouts 7 troops (sniper rifles, camo cloaks, heavy bolter, melta bombs) 137

Troops 3
Tactical Squad 10 troops (flamer, multi-melta, power weapon) 190

Rhino (dedicated transport) 35

Elite 1
Legion of the Damned 5 troops ( melta, multi-melta, power fist) 220

Elite 2
Terminator Assault Squad 8 troops (4 Lightning Claws, 4 TH) 320

Land Raider Crusader (dedicated transport, extra armor) 265

Fast Attack
Land Speeder Storm (heavy flamer) 60

Total: 1497

eNvY wrote:

tedurur wrote:you are spending almost 40% of your total pts on one unit. You have no armour saturation so the LR will be shoot to pices instantly.
As have been said, LotD sucks. If you really like the models, use them as Sternguard instead.
Your scouts might get one tank in the alpha strike but then they are dead and you will be left with one scoring unit.

Good luck trying to shoot a Land Raider "to pieces instantly". Mine draws the majority of AT fire in 1500-2000 point games and it rarely ever goes down, and and never before turn 4.

No offence, but you cant be playing against very good lists if that is the case...One dragon squad and the thing goes poof, or some MM/HF speeders or some melta vets or...well you get it. The point is, he has NOTHING in his list that is remotly dangerous so I would not even think twice about droping 2 dragon squads against the one LR.

Kommissar Kel wrote:OP: LotD Looks damn Cool... but Sternguard are way cheaper and do the same job better.

10 Sternguard, 2 combi meltas, Powerfist= 255 points, and have access to special ammunition on all troopers.

QFT. Sternguard in a drop pod. droping right on the enemy (scattering off 1 inch off course as per its inertial guiding system) Rain hell on everything with there combi-meltas and plasmas. Nothing scare sme worse than a drop pod full of sternguard, half with combiplasma, half with combimelta dropping with lysander...

edit

I would avoid drop pods for now because with current reserve rules you opponent might not have anything on the board for you to drop into and then they are easy to avoid because they dont have enough mobility to get into range to be effective.

Also i would suggest the Land Raider Redeemer over the crusader, because it is cheaper, and its S6 AP3 template weapons are better than the bolters that the crusader has, the only problem is that you would need to lower the number of terminators you have to 6, but imo you dont need 8 of them at 1500. Also i would take the multimelta option on the land raider so it can effectively kill tanks.

What is the MoF meant to be doing? He has no otehr bike support!

The 5 scouts still won't achieve anything, even in a storm. They don't have enough melta to gurantee a kill. Plus a single speeder will be wasted, rapidly.

remove digital weapons from MotF. he should not be getting into assault.