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Putting this list together, but before I convert a bunch of terminator models, I want some advice on how this list looks to some of the other Dakka-ites. As you read the list, I think the strategy will be self explanatory. I also have 30 points left over, so if you have any suggestions....

Black Legion - Deep Strike (1470)

HQ -160
Chaos Lord
Terminator
Tzeentch
DW

Troop - 215
CSM x10
Flamer x2
IoCG
Champ w/ Fist
Rhino w/ dozer

Troop - 275
CSM x10
Melta x2
IoCG
Champ w/ Fist
Rhino w/ dozer & Havoc launcher

Troop - 275
CSM x10
Melta x2
IoCG
Champ w/ Fist
Rhino w/ dozer & Havoc launcher

Heavy 1 - 225
Obliterators x3

Elite 1 - 160
Terminator x3
1. Chain Fist / combi-melta
2. Pwr Fist / combi-melta
3. Pwr Wep / combi-melta

Elite 2 - 160
Terminator x3
1. Chain Fist / combi-flamer
2. Pwr Fist / heavy flamer
3. Pwr Wep / combi-flamer

Notes: Although I look forward to hearing your opinion, please don't reccomend DP w/ Lash. I am aware of this strategy and prefer not to use it.

On havoc Launchers: I know no one puts them on Rhinos and I usually don't myself, but I figure I can hold a far-away objective and at least be able to participate in the fight. I considered swapping a Lascannon in one of those squads, but I fear it will limit the effectiveness of the melta shots / assault capabilities while also limiting the amount of damage that can be done on squads vs vehicles. I am still considering it, though.

I would totally choose extra armour over dozer blades- I'd rather keep moving forward than be able to reroll my difficult terrain checks... most difficult terrain i drive through is halfway up the board or in their deployment zone, so i don't terribly mind the immobilized when it rarely happens.

Your call on HQ, but I would've taken a sorc instead with warptime and winds of chaos(keeping the MoT). Unbeatable for ensuring your cc attacks are killing things and winds of chaos is unbeatable for clearing out infantry regardless of what their special rules/armor/toughness is like. You may also consider putting the sorc(adding wings) with a squad of raptors with meltas + MoK/MoT/MoS to get some slight cheaper(compared to terms) cc troops that still deal out the wounds and can still be deepstriked.

The rhino upgrades are your choice. If you have a serious reason for needing havoc launchers go for it, but I usually find I can spend the points elsewhere and make better use of them. The dozer blades aren't a lot of points if you can't spend them elsewhere , but I don't really see them as being entirely needed. Rhinos are supposed to be a cheap way to protect your troops just enough to get them close to your enemy so you can pop out, shoot the hell out of them, and charge asap. The more points you spend on them the more it wouldve been better to buy more marine bodies and skip the transport altogether(I don't recommend this).

I also think since you have a huge amount of melta weapons you might consider skipping the oblits and trading them in for some havocs(autocannons x4 or ac x2/ml x2). If you were planning on deep striking them in for ...flamers/multi-melta I'd probably drop them entirely and get more terms with combi-meltas/flamers/cc weapons(more attacks, can actually move a real distance, less or equal points, better weapon/equipment/mark choices, same amount of wounds). They are simply too expensive and just aren't that amazing in a deep strike situation compared to terminators.

One last suggestion is to consider some lesser daemon squads. They are terrible except in a situation that allows you to plop them down next to one of your squads (already close to the enemy thanks to deep strike) and suddenly you have a lot more CC troops to use as a tie-up unit for your terms to charge into, or just cheap cc troops to bolster your numbers.

Lord: that cost?…hmm, /shrug, whatever floats your boat. He’s a flexible killer.

Troops look fine.
Oblits are ok.

Termies: not really serious squads if they are 3 man squad. If they be going with combi weapons at 3 man, they don’t need combat weapons.

So…you are thinking of DSing the Lord, Oblits, and termies and running with 3 Rhino squads on the board… I’d say that’s borderline ‘fine’. Some more armor would be better.

Havoc launcher would be better on the flamer chaos marines rhino as it suits there anti infantry build.

IMO no.
Flamers need to get close. Havoc Launchers do not want to get close/don't need to.
Kind of contradictory with respect to operational ranges and the way the flamers get to the enemy.

Jihallah wrote:I would totally choose extra armour over dozer blades- I'd rather keep moving forward than be able to reroll my difficult terrain checks... most difficult terrain i drive through is halfway up the board or in their deployment zone, so i don't terribly mind the immobilized when it rarely happens.

I roll bad.....real bad. Realistically - I have a 33% chance to roll a one. Dozers are't an "option" as much as they are a necessity.

Halsfield wrote:Your call on HQ, but I would've taken a sorc instead with warptime and winds of chaos(keeping the MoT). Unbeatable for ensuring your cc attacks are killing things and winds of chaos is unbeatable for clearing out infantry regardless of what their special rules/armor/toughness is like. You may also consider putting the sorc(adding wings) with a squad of raptors with meltas + MoK/MoT/MoS to get some slight cheaper(compared to terms) cc troops that still deal out the wounds and can still be deepstriked.

I have considered doing this. I like the idea of a fast moving sorcerer with a handful of raptors to get the CC job done. Who should they replace?

Halsfield wrote: I also think since you have a huge amount of melta weapons you might consider skipping the oblits and trading them in for some havocs(autocannons x4 or ac x2/ml x2). If you were planning on deep striking them in for ...flamers/multi-melta I'd probably drop them entirely and get more terms with combi-meltas/flamers/cc weapons(more attacks, can actually move a real distance, less or equal points, better weapon/equipment/mark choices, same amount of wounds). They are simply too expensive and just aren't that amazing in a deep strike situation compared to terminators.

My main focus for posting this list was to get a reaction on the terminators, as I have never used them this way and wanted to see what others thought. I love oblits, so I'd have a hard time letting them go. I take it that you think the termies w/ combis are a good option then?

Halsfield wrote:
One last suggestion is to consider some lesser daemon squads. They are terrible except in a situation that allows you to plop them down next to one of your squads (already close to the enemy thanks to deep strike) and suddenly you have a lot more CC troops to use as a tie-up unit for your terms to charge into, or just cheap cc troops to bolster your numbers.

I would be willing to try this, but I would have to drop something from my list to get them in. I am guessing you would rather see something like 10x lesser daemons and an extra squad of terminators vs. the 1 oblit squad, eh?

Sanctjud wrote:Lord: that cost?…hmm, /shrug, whatever floats your boat. He’s a flexible killer.

Troops look fine.
Oblits are ok.

Termies: not really serious squads if they are 3 man squad. If they be going with combi weapons at 3 man, they don’t need combat weapons.

So…you are thinking of DSing the Lord, Oblits, and termies and running with 3 Rhino squads on the board… I’d say that’s borderline ‘fine’. Some more armor would be better.

I saw a battlereport where someone Deep Struck with three 3-man terminator squads to contest an objective and tie up the opponent while he captured the other points on the table. I thought I would try it out in a list and see what others thought. I take it you would prefer more termies and less versatility? My only fear is walkers. I have had entire 10-man squads of CSMs get demolished by a sentinel - and that's with a powerfist. As I said earlier, I roll bad and I fear losing 130 points to some walker.

You reccomended more armor. Would apredator and beefed up termie squads over the oblits do the trick? Or should I drop the termies and add in oblits + pred?

mercer wrote:Havoc launcher would be better on the flamer chaos marines rhino as it suits there anti infantry build.

I see your point, but what if I need an objective on my side of the table? Should I make the flamers sit and wait? My thinking was that the meltas had a better chance - although admittedly dismal at best - to shoot at incoming targets.

No, you'll be sending in the flamers into range anyway, right?

Yea... on a Rhino moving 12" a turn. Which means no shooting...
You will need to approach moving 12" and when they engage, they need the 12" movement to get into position, which means less shooting.

If you put the havocs on a static squad with a heavy weapon AI or AT, then the Rhino is both:
1. Shooting.
2. Maximizing havoc L's range.

mercer wrote:No, you'll be sending in the flamers into range anyway, right?

Yes - flamers will be the first to fight, but I was putting the launchers on the melta squads so that they could get objectives further away and - instead of just sitting there wasting gas - could actually shoot at enemy infantry. This might even allow them to soften up enemy lines before the flamers disembark. I was also considering a Lascannon in one of those melta squads. I figured, the rhino can plop down on an objective and the Marine inside can take shots at big targets from across the field.

But meltas need to be up front with the flamers to get into melta range, right?

If you really want a objective camper I would take probably 2 plasma guns.

mercer wrote:But meltas need to be up front with the flamers to get into melta range, right?

If you really want a objective camper I would take probably 2 plasma guns.

What about a Lascannon?

FlightMek wrote:

What about a Lascannon?

Lascannons are very overpriced for what they can do in 5th edition. Their biggest problem is the cover save which is very easy to get these days. You really want volume over quality. Think about autocannons. A second shot at 2 less str is definitely worth it and for far less points.

I run a 3-man term squad with combi-meltas in my 1000pt army. They're great for dropping in and nuking tanks, then if they live, tying up some units in CC. They're not always reliable though so you have to kinda take the good with the bad. I like them so far and would recommend at least trying them.

FlightMek wrote:

mercer wrote:But meltas need to be up front with the flamers to get into melta range, right?

If you really want a objective camper I would take probably 2 plasma guns.

What about a Lascannon?

Because you can move and shoot with plasmas.

Thanks for the input, guys. Here is the revised list:

Black Legion - Deep Strike (1475) To prevent redundancy I just added the change below.

I have replaced the Flamer squad w/ this squad and dropped the HL from both melta squads. I figured with all the Oblits and termies, who needs CSMs with template weapons?:

Troop - 285
CSM x10
Plasma x2
IoCG
Champ w/ Fist
Rhino w/ dozer & Havoc launcher

I am also considering dropping the HL on this rhino and just throwing in a Chaos Spawn for fun....

List looks OK.

Teminators are always cool. They may not be supper killy death machines, but they are great to model, and just plain fun to play with.

Good call, on the new squad. Just remember to use that rhino for cover saves in case the objective you are sitting on is out in the open. If you keep the launcher on it, then you may be able to harass some infantry squads into plasma range or shake up his transports with it. If you can make it annoying enough then your opponent will have to come over and deal with it.

You don't want a champ with a power fist with rapid fire weapons because you cannot charge afterwards! :(