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Oops, wrong forum, this is in the list forum now.

I am building a Orc/Goblin army for fantasy. I was wondering if anyone is bored out there and wants to help me with my list. Here is what I have.

Orc Warboss on a Wyvren with a Ironclaw Cleava

10 Squid hoppers

3 x 20 Night Goblins with 3 fanatics each

10 forest spiders

20 Orc boyz

2 Orc Boar Chariots

Goblin Shaman with tricky staff

Orc Shaman with ? magic item

What am I missing?

Thank you in advance.

I don't much about WHFB, but I know the new orc and goblins book coming in May, I'd hold off on any new purchases, etc., until then, as it will likely mess with the rules. Also, this would be better served in the army lists forum.

I don't believe the book is coming out in May... just some new models.

I love the idea of O&G and would be interested in seeing some lists posted, too

Just new models in may, not a new armybook.

We are probably going to see Big 'uns.

Not to let this degenerate into a rumor re-hash, but elsewhere, it's been boarboyz and river trolls as the posted options.

My personal opinion is that you don't need 3 fanatics in each goblin block. Drop them to two each, and you can afford spear chukkas which are nifty and cheap.

Do you have the Army book what points level are you shooting for?

RZ

I am trying for 2250pts. I will drop the fanatics, thank you. I have no experience and they did seem expensive, but everyone groans when they come out so I went for the max. I will put two chukkas in then. What about wolf riders, are they worth it?

Thanks tons.

Lets see:

1. Orc Warboss isn't too bad, although I would spring for the Ulrick's axe which allows him to reroll misses in combat.
2. Your night goblin units need to be bigger, as you lose your fanatics if the parent unit panics or runs at any point before they pop out. Don't get me wrong - fanatics are incredible for what they do and cost - they will really help you out.
3. Forest spiders are good for fast cavalry, although you should run them in 2 groups of 5.
4. Adding shields to your orc boyz? Need a few more units of them and probably at about 25 each.
5. Boar Chariots are decent.
6. Squig hoppers - not too crazy about them as they have random movement. Although they are pretty good against skirmishers trying to march block you.
7. Shamans are okay.

You really do need some Orc artillery, whether it be stone throwers, goblin doom divers or spear chukkas. These will allow you to take out big, multi-wound models and monsters, which I think your current list would have some problems with.

What's good about squig hoppers is that they are ItP and don't take animosity, which will give you something a little more dependable (albeit with random movement).

Matt's recommendation on pairing units of fast cav is a good one. Thus if one squabbles, the other can perform the duty you require of it.

Also, I tend to see Shagga's and the Kickin' boots on the Wyvern, but your mileage may vary.

RZ

Red_Zeke wrote:What's good about squig hoppers is that they...

...look COMPLETELY AWESOME

Those models are almost enough to make me do an O&G army!

Please keep them in

Here are my concerns: O&G leadership is really poor and you need to keep your general near your army or they will run away while your general is busy attacking 1 unit. If the general is on a Wyvern he is a large target and I've seen a unit of 40 Tomb King archers kill dragons and giants because all their ranks can shoot. I put mine in a chariot. On the waagh turn (probably the most important action of your game) I try and get him charging an infantry block in the flank. With the impact hits and Maatag's Best basha, he can deal enough damage that a unit of boyz can break most units (except those unbreakable lizardmen death star temple guard units). I also place a Black orc hero in a chariot because he will automatically pass his waagh check too. That's one more flank attacker.

I would agree that you should cut down the number of fanatics. People groan because fanatics slow down the game and make it less fun for everyone. If you want to use them then have lots of warmachines to shoot your opponent's units while they wait for the fanatics to move out of the way or kill themselves. Spear chukkas are the best, doomdivers are very orcy and good fun. A Rock lobba can devastate blocks of infantry, but is the most unreliable.

Orc magic is usually more deadly for orcs than their opponents. Our miscast table is deadlier than everyone else's and we have no way to negate the effects. I will generally take a couple of goblin scroll caddies and never even bother casting spells. I put them in chariots and give them nasty surprises like the brimstone bauble so after he has used his 2 dispell scrolls I charge into combat, do some impact hits, if he dies, he blows up. In a chariot they have a unit strength of 5 and count when charging flanks so they canceled my opponent's rank bonus.

I will have pairs of wolf rider units because they fail animosity and fear checks so often that I hope one will succeed. They are absolutely useless in combat but they can march block and destroy those big infantry blocks that break from the warboss in chariot and orc boy attack. Charging the rear is less useful than blocking the retreat.

10 Squig hoppers can be game winners if you hop them at diagonals until they get close enough to hit something. If they get charged than they will die. I place them on a flank behind some forests so they can hop around and over them to hit something in the flank.

Snotlings are good for claiming table quarters because whatever goes after them cost lots more and that's one less effect unit attacking your line. Snotling pump wagons are cheap and make good charge targets. Rarely do they get a chance to charge for 2D6 impact hits but people charge them out of fear and again a more expensive unit is wasting time killing your snotlings.

I field a giant and place him behind a forest so he can't be shot by cannons. I have him face the center so if anyone tries charging my boyz he will charge them in the flank on the next turn.

My battle plan works something like this: First, I set up my snotlings and wolf riders on the flanks. Depending on points I will have 2 units of 2 stands of snotlings and 2 5/6man units of wolves. I might take 1-2 5 man units of spider riders if there is a forest or other piece of terrain from them to occupy. Again they are almost useless but your opponent has to deal with them. By this time my opponent has set up 5 units and I have an idea of what his plan is. I will place my 20 night goblins (3 fanatics) in the center of my line. I will usually place them in 2 ranks but I do want them to cover my orc boyz from missile fire and not rank them up so a lucky cannon ball can't force them to flee before the fanatics are released. I will place the 27-35 boyz 6-8 inches behind them. The giant goes on the flank of them where I fear an enemy break through. Finally, I place my warmachines: 2-4 spear chukkas, a doom diver, a rock lobba, 3 orc chariots and 2 wolf chariots. The warboss is in 1 chariot, a black orc big boss in a chariot, the goblin shamans in the 2 wolf chariots, and there is 1 more orc chariot near the center and the 2 snotling pump wagons on the flanks. The artillery goes on the hill(s).

On the first turn I will run the night goblins forward so they can release the fanatics as far forward as possible in his lines. I try and control one or both flanks so I can get a charge on his war machines or get behind his infantry to march block them. My artillery tries to eliminate his rank bonuses or even wipe out units. I park the giant facing the center so my opponent knows that I will charge his flank. Hopefully, after a couple of turns of shooting and flank control he will charge my night goblins who will flee and set up a charge (on my next turn with the help of the waagh) by my block of boyz, general on the chariot on one flank and the giant on the other. The combined attack will have a combat resolution that will win the combat, he will fail his leadership check and I will rush up the center and win the game.

In reality, my opponent will go first and rush some fast cav unit forward and force me to release the fanatics in front of my units which after the first turn will reverse their direction and hit the night goblins who will fail their leadership check and flee off the field. On the flanks, half of the wolf riders will fail their animosity checks and the pump wagons/squig hoppers will move forward 5-7 inches which is just enough for them to by charged by cav which will wipe them out and over run into the wolf riders which didn't move because of animosity. Some one will shoot the spider riders causing 2 casualties and they will fail their leadership test and flee. On the next turn they will fail their leadership again (despite having a musician). They will roll a 17 or 18 and be off the board. On the first turn my opponent will use enough magic and bound spells to force me to use all my dispell scrolls and on the second turn he will destroy any on my remaining flankers so his cav can charge my artillery, which is really OK because the rock lobba rolled a deviation arrow and a 10 so it missed everything and the doom diver misfired. The spear chukkas will hit 1/3 of the time and kill 2 troopers before rolling 1 and failing to wound the second rank. On the third turn I will waagh and attempt to charge his fear causing units. The giant will charge one unit in the flank but the chariot that was going to charge the front would have failed the fear check and sit there. The boyz will charge the unit of WS7 skeletons and the general who was supposed to charge the flank will also fail it's fear check. The giant will do something worthless and lose the combat because of rank bonus and the the giant will fail his stubborn 10 leadership and flee 3 inches and get caught and die. The orc boyz will kill loads of skeletons but because they have a banner which doubles their numbers they will win combat by 1 point and because they now outnumber you the boyz will flee. On the waagh turn the wolf riders will fail their animosity roll and kill themselves (or cause enough wounds so they fail their leadership and flee).

Or even better, your opponent will fly a dragon within terror range and your whole army will flee. It gives you more time for refreshments and doesn't draw out your inevitable defeat.

As someone mentioned, a new book will be out sometime this year and maybe we will get an upgrade to the point where we will be competitive again. Or hey maybe we will get a downgrade like the beast men, which is hard to believe, but not out of the question.

Well, that was refreshing. I love the figures and think the Warboss on the dragon has to be able to do something. The game is about controlling the terrain placement so I was going to put impassable stuff on a flank for the spiders. A hill for the dragon to hide behind then do the waagh. Is the Orc shaman the one that does the waagh?

The way everyone talks on the net, it makes the game sound completely unbalanced. The fanatics are too powerful, the squig hoppers are not fair, then you say it is not competitive. SO, at this point I throw my hands in the air and say, so what, let's play the only game in print that makes dragons and have some fun.

Thank you again for the great ideas. I am going to get some of the cool stuff like doom divers and wagons and have a blast making them run around like chickens with their heads cut off, which seem easier to control than an Orc/Goblin army.

THE Waagh rules are found with the animosity rules. There is a spell called waagh but it isn't the same thing. THE waagh happens once per game and is decided by you. Before you roll animosity for a turn you declare your waagh. The general and black orcs automatically pass. All other units which roll for animosity make a roll with these changes: 1's always fail and your unit takes D6 wounds with no saves (this is why wolf riders kill themselves). Orc boyz units get +1 for each rank and if they are led by a boss. Goblin boyz get only +1 if they have any ranks because their weedy little voices can't shout WAAGH!!! properly. I use my waagh turn to move and position my chariots for flank charges and if I roll well enough to get my chargers into combat without having to roll fear and terror checks.

I would boost the size of your night goblin units. It's pretty cheap to make them larger and it gives you insurance against magic / missile fire doing enough damage to run them off before they deliver their fanatics.

I agree with a lot of the above.
Make the night goblin units bigger, maybe 30 per unit. I used to make them 7 wide but found 5 wide worked better as the scr was way more reliable than kills.
The doom diver rocks. It actually makes opponents laugh and cringe (both good for getting them a little off their game) and being able to correct the scatter a bit is wonderful.
2 fanatics per unit is plenty for all the reasons already stated.
Magic is a killer for goblin shamens. I find the spells of the little waaaugh weak compared to my other army (dark elves) so scoll carrying is probably the best use of them.
The spider riders are great for march blocking just don't expect them to kill anything , ever, by themselves. Great for flanking just not by themselves.
I think the biggest thing is you have to have a good attitude. Orcs and goblins with run at the worst times and fail their animosity just at the wrong time. You have to have a good sense of humour I think to have fun with these guys.

You guys rock. Thank you for all the awesome support. I like that there is still hope for a new book. I can't help thinking sheer numbers should rule the day, but I don't have experience to back that up. I will pick up a doom glider, black orcs, and a pump wagon. Does anyone comment on choices of terrain and placement of terrain?

With that many goblins, try not to play elves...