Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Well the tournament I went to last weekend was mostly successful for me, i had 3 big wins and got massacred once, coming in 7th overall, (tied 2nd for best general) and it gave me hope that the DE can win in a big scale tournament. Here is the list i am considering for Adepticon. I am thinking about losing either equipment or models for a crucible of malediction, with psyker wolves and Tyranids i expect there to be plenty of psykers that it could kill...suggestions?

Kabal of Violet Shadows

1 Archon (HQ)
>Punisher
>Tormentor Helm
>Combat Drugs
>Shadow Field
>Plasma Grenades
>Animus Vitae
5 Incubi Retinue
>Plasma Grenades
1 Raider
>Horrorfex

5 Raider Squad (Troops)
>Dark Lance
1 Raider

5 Raider Squad (Troops)
>Dark Lance
1 Raider

5 Raider Squad (Troops)
>Dark Lance
1 Raider

5 Raider Squad (Troops)
>Dark Lance
1 Raider

5 Raider Squad (Troops)
>Dark Lance
1 Raider

5 Raider Squad (Troops)
>Dark Lance
1 Raider

1 Ravager (Heavy Support)
>Disintegrator (x3)

1 Ravager (Heavy Support)
>Disintegrator (x3)

1 Ravager (Heavy Support)
>Disintegrator (x3)

5 Wyches (Elites)
>Blaster (x2)
1 Succubus
>Agoniser; Splinter Pistol
1 Raider
>Horrorfex

5 Wyches (Elites)
>Blaster (x2)
1 Succubus
>Agoniser; Splinter Pistol
1 Raider
>Horrorfex

5 Wyches (Elites)
>Blaster (x2)
1 Succubus
>Agoniser; Splinter Pistol
1 Raider
>Horrorfex

Models in Army: 67
Total Army Cost: 1847

and here is a taste of how my army looks, i have a lot to finish by Adepticon:

http://s122.photobucket.com/albums/o273/wileythenord/Dark%20Eldar/

looks great to me but why no wych weapons? also i think you dont really need the animus vitae really. maybe take the points out of that and put wych weapons in?

Well First off Welcome to Dakka!

Second just in case you didn't know 1850, and 2500 are the hardest lists to compete with if you play dark eldar, so be aware that its not going to be an easy time.


That being said this is my standard 1850 list, its much like yours but with a couple changes:


1850 Pts - Dark Eldar Roster

5 Raider Squad @ 105 pts (Splinter Rifle x4; Dark Lance; Raider)
. . 1 Raider (Dark Lance)

5 Raider Squad @ 110 pts (Blaster; Splinter Rifle x3; Dark Lance; Raider)
. . 1 Raider (Dark Lance)

5 Raider Squad @ 110 pts (Blaster; Splinter Rifle x3; Dark Lance; Raider)
. . 1 Raider (Dark Lance)

5 Raider Squad @ 110 pts (Blaster; Splinter Rifle x3; Dark Lance; Raider)
. . 1 Raider (Dark Lance)

5 Raider Squad @ 110 pts (Blaster; Splinter Rifle x3; Dark Lance; Raider)
. . 1 Raider (Dark Lance)

5 Raider Squad @ 110 pts (Blaster; Splinter Rifle x3; Dark Lance; Raider)
. . 1 Raider (Dark Lance)

1 Ravager @ 120 pts (Disentegrator x3)

1 Ravager @ 120 pts (Disentegrator x3)

1 Ravager @ 120 pts (Disentegrator x3)

5 Wyches @ 177 pts (Close Combat Weapon; Splinter Pistol; Wych Weapons; Blaster x2; Combat Drugs; Plasma Grenades)
. . 1 Succubus (Agoniser; Splinter Pistol; Wych Weapons; Plasma Grenades (Squad))
. . 1 Raider (Dark Lance)

5 Wyches @ 177 pts (Close Combat Weapon; Splinter Pistol; Wych Weapons; Blaster x2; Combat Drugs; Plasma Grenades)
. . 1 Succubus (Agoniser; Splinter Pistol; Wych Weapons; Plasma Grenades (Squad))
. . 1 Raider (Dark Lance)

5 Wyches @ 197 pts (Close Combat Weapon; Splinter Pistol; Wych Weapons; Blaster x2; Combat Drugs; Plasma Grenades)
. . 1 Succubus (Agoniser; Splinter Pistol; Wych Weapons; Crucible of Malediction ; Plasma Grenades (Squad))
. . 1 Raider (Dark Lance)

1 Archon @ 281 pts (Combat Drug Dispenser; Shadow Field; Tormentor Helm; Punisher)
. . 1 Retinue
. . . . 2 Warriors (Splinter Rifle x2)
. . . . 3 Incubi (Tormentor Helm; Punisher x3)
. . . . 1 Raider (Dark Lance)



Total Roster Cost: 1847



The major differences is that I run a Crusible, wyche weapons, and blasters on all of my warrior squads but 1.

The way I come up with the cost difference is by dropping 2 incubi, all the horrorfexs (in my meta-game 90% of the opponents are fearless, or in transports almost all of the game), and cutting out animus vitae on the archon (he doesn't really need it anyways since all the assault boats are counter attacking)

honestly i like the crucible but i never really saw any reason to take it, considering i play against very few psykers at all. but it is powerful when it works so *shrug*

Honestly its the best 20 points ever spent in a DE army since the new nid codex came out.

The last tourney I went to I played three rounds (and tabled my all my opponents) and in the first round I killed a Tervigon with it (10 to one point swap ) the second round I missed killing a librarian, the third round I killed a Tzeentch DP (again over a 10 to 1 gain).

I haven't played DE since 1999, so I won't try to give you advice, but I'll second the advice of psychic defense. Not taking it in any army that can have it is
a mistake. Space wolves, nids, marines, eldar, chaos, etc etc. All very common on the table.

I like your suggestions and reasoning, but in tournament situations i have found a few horrorfexes to be worth there weight in gold, especially in late game when my dark lance shots don't mean as much.

Oh and the wyche weapon thing, i feel like that is a complete waste of points, in my last 5 games wyche weapons have done nothing for me, as i tend to run my wyches as jihad squads and they either pile into a squad and tie them up for 4 turns or they take out something that will cause me a problem (attack bikes, obliterators, whatever) and the extra points for wyche weapons or grenades hasn't been an issue.

Let me tool around and see if i can come up with a compromise.

I have one major suggestion for this list.

Drop the archon.

Archons are great for running solo, but with a big unit of incubi, I would recommend going with a dracon sans animus vitae, (and maybe with an agonizer to help with an MCs you might get stuck in with). The extra points you save might be enough to get a wych dracite w/agonizer to add to one of your wyche squads (make them her retinue), this makes for a REALLY killy unit, especially if you give them the goblet of spite (and wyche weapons ).

@Wiley

Very nice list, only question is why take the punisher when you could take an agonizer, letting you drop the Animus and the Tormentor helm (and also letting you tkae safer Combat Drugs). Spending 50+ somthing points to give your archon a situational 6 str (assuming hes activated the Animus and buffed himself with drugs) seems a bit redic to me, the Agoniser gives you the 4+ to wound on spacemarines (same as the +1 from the Punisher) and it is still a power weapon. Yeah you may be wounding "less" on T3, but with Str4 Incubi, does that really matter? Especially with the added bonus of wounding 4+s on T5+. This should also give you the points back to take a crucible.

@Gardeth

Can you take Dracons and Dracites in the same list? I thought Archon/Dracons/Incubi (etc) were Kabal only and Arcites/Dracites were Wych Cult only... I may be mistaken on this one however

Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:
@Gardeth

Can you take Dracons and Dracites in the same list? I thought Archon/Dracons/Incubi (etc) were Kabal only and Arcites/Dracites were Wych Cult only... I may be mistaken on this one however

You can, you just can't take Archons and Archites together.

So you could take Lilith and a Dracon togeather.... hmmm.... *starts plotting*

@ gardeth: i hate to admit this, since i don't want you thinking you have any good ideas , but that is a hella good idea about dropping the archon for a dracon, i forgot that the only reason he was an archon anyway was to take up points for BFSR since i was running on a tight painting schedule!

I still want to take the archon setup with all the bells and whistles, but you guys are right, for adepticon i need flexibility...plus that is potentially one less model to paint! so here goes list V.2

1 Dracon (HQ)
>Agoniser, Splinter Pistol
>Combat Drugs
>Shadow Field
>Plasma Grenades
4 Incubi Retinue
>Plasma Grenades
1 Warriors
>Plasma Grenades
1 Raider
>Horrorfex

5 Raider Squad (Troops)
>Dark Lance
1 Raider

5 Raider Squad (Troops)
>Dark Lance
1 Raider

5 Raider Squad (Troops)
>Dark Lance
1 Raider

5 Raider Squad (Troops)
>Dark Lance
1 Raider

5 Raider Squad (Troops)
>Dark Lance
1 Raider

4 Raider Squad (Troops)
>Dark Lance
1 Sybarite
>Splinter Rifle
>Crucible of Malediction
1 Raider

1 Ravager (Heavy Support)
>Disintegrator (x3)

1 Ravager (Heavy Support)
>Disintegrator (x3)

1 Ravager (Heavy Support)
>Disintegrator (x3)

5 Wyches (Elites)
>Blaster (x2); Plasma Grenades; Wych Weapons
1 Succubus
>Agoniser; Splinter Pistol
1 Raider
>Horrorfex

5 Wyches (Elites)
>Blaster (x2); Plasma Grenades; Wych Weapons
1 Succubus
>Agoniser; Splinter Pistol
1 Raider
>Horrorfex

5 Wyches (Elites)
>Blaster (x2); Plasma Grenades; Wych Weapons
1 Succubus
>Agoniser; Splinter Pistol
1 Raider
>Horrorfex

Models in Army: 67
Total Army Cost: 1848

wileythenord wrote:@ gardeth: i hate to admit this, since i don't want you thinking you have any good ideas , but that is a hella good idea about dropping the archon for a dracon, i forgot that the only reason he was an archon anyway was to take up points for BFSR since i was running on a tight painting schedule!

Ok how about some bad ideas to make you feel better?

You should:

Drop all your wyches for grotesques.
Drop all your ravagers for 2 talos and a unit of scourges with splinter cannons.
Drop your HQ and bring Kruellagh the Vile.
Put all your warriors on foot and give them splinter cannons.

wileythenord wrote:
4 Raider Squad (Troops)
>Dark Lance
1 Sybarite
>Splinter Rifle
>Crucible of Malediction
1 Raider

No offense but this seems like a terrible idea...

To use this effectifely you will need to move your raider within 12 inches of an enemy psyker, hope it does not get killed or the psycker move away from the raider before it's next turn, and sac the raider/succubus by not moving or shooting the turn you use the Crucible...

IIRC being in an assault does not count as moving or shooting, you are better off giving the Crucible to a wych squad, have it assault the Psycker Squad (or model) in question, and crucible it on the following turn (before the assualt phase)

I don't have my codex with me here at work, but I don't recall crucible saying it may be used INSTEAD of shooting, just that the model may not move or shoot in the turn that it is used.

The way I see it the horrorfex are situational for your meta-game. In my current meta-game fireing 3 lances from my boat seems to do a lot more than pinning a squad and firing 1 lance.


As for dropping the archon, for a Dracon I would rather drop the whole unit for three heamons with scissor hands and distructor. They can each ride with the wyches and help thin out massive units like Guants, Orks, and Penal legions before you attempted to tie them up by charging with just the wyches. After that the Heamons jump back on the boat and keep rolling along.

This will also free up some points to grab blasters on the raider squads, which IMO are almost mandatory with the prevalence of Tyranids and DS/outflanking uints. They allow you to move 6" and still fire 2 lances or stand still and send 3 into your local trygon.


And Finally I would strongly suggest you put the crucible on an assault unit, or one of the heamons if you choose to go that route.

I've got a 5 game tournament next weekend and I'm bringing this:

Archon with Punisher/tormentor helm, plasma grenades, combat drugs, shadowfield, trophy rack, Animus Vitae

Dracon with Agonizer/ splinter pistol, plasma grenades, combat drugs
with
5 incubi in a raider with horrorfex

6 wyches and 1 Succubus with wych weapons, plasma grenades, haywire grenades, succubus with punisher/tormentor helm in a raider with horrorfex

6 wyches and 1 Succubus with wych weapons, plasma grenades, haywire grenades, succubus with punisher/tormentor helm in a raider with horrorfex

4 5 man raider squads with blaster/dark lance on a raider with horrorfex & tourture amps

10 man warrior squad with 2 blasters and 2 dark lances

1 3 lance ravager

1 Vect style ravagers (1 lance & 2 plasma cannons)

The foot warrior squad has been pretty great as 4 dark lances within 12 inches are GREAT against drop podding units.

I've been running the math behind a Punisher vs Agnoizer and the Punisher tends to win out over everything but biker lists and large MC lists. I've corrected for this by adding in more dark lances due to the current mech heavy meta in the Pacific NW.
Plus I always get a smile when I roll +1 strength for the wych drugs on a punisher succubus. Wounding guardsmen & gaunts on 2's!

Haywire grenades really help finishing off those tanks I've immobilized.

The Archon is a 1 man wrecking crew, on Monday he killed a Chaos Sorceror, Terminator lord, 3 terminators, and a full CSM troop squad all by himself in 1 game (6 power weapon attacks on the charge rerolling misses can be pretty effective).

Finally, while the idea of a crucible is great, you'll find that the math doesn't work very well for you. Nearly every psycher is leadership 10, therefore you have a 1/12 chance of killing them if you are over 12 inches away and a 1/6 chance of killing them if you are within 12 inches. This item is completly useless against armies without psychics and outside of Eldar & nids most armies have only 1 or 2 psychers (Space Marines, CSM, orks). So is paying 20 points for something that only has a 1/6 chance to work worth it? Unless you are matched up with Nids with a ton of MC's I doubt it.