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So the Beastmen codex has been out for about a month now and I was wondering what people were thinking about it. Ive read through it and it doesn't seem too bad, not on par with daemons,DE,Vampires, but not as bad as O&G. Let me know what you guys think. Also has anyone done or is planning to do a Tactica on them?

It's not really top tier, but it's a bit early to say exactly how they'll fit in till people get more games in with some of the heavier builds (minos or chariots).

There's been a number of Beast lists posted up in the ArmyList section with varying degrees of experience and math-hammer applied.

RZ

bleh, i've been trying to patch together a list that works.

Lore of the wild has enormous casting costs, the bestial surge spell seems worthless and viletide is pretty plain worthless. Its magic missile, 5d6 s1 hits that dont ignore armor, even with the Hagtree fetish (lets you reroll wounds in magic phase) I would only ever cast it against skinks and WE and such. oh yea, the "1" spell goes off at a 7+. Pretty much all the other spells are situational, have high casting value, and have a very, very short range.

the core troops are depressingly cheap and expendable, you could bring an all chariot list though witch is kind of nifty. Also you can round up all your core choices in under 100 points total if you feel like it.

Minotaurs are pretty cool, Bestigors look really cool, Razorgors look hilarious and hit really hard, i have no opinion on centigors except i cant own them in my current income bracket.

Rare choices...holy cow, the jabberslyth is a goofy creature you have to build yourself (yay!) and is pretty much a flying US5 terror bomb that kills folks sometimes for being too close. The ghorgon is probably the safest of the 4 choices, great stats and high speed make it a nice alternative to the giant, epecially since it just gains attacks until there are no enemies left on the board. The cygore has potention however every time i bring him all he ever does is hurt himself.

infamousxiii wrote:bleh, i've been trying to patch together a list that works.

Lore of the wild has enormous casting costs, the bestial surge spell seems worthless and viletide is pretty plain worthless. Its magic missile, 5d6 s1 hits that dont ignore armor, even with the Hagtree fetish (lets you reroll wounds in magic phase) I would only ever cast it against skinks and WE and such. oh yea, the "1" spell goes off at a 7+. Pretty much all the other spells are situational, have high casting value, and have a very, very short range.

the core troops are depressingly cheap and expendable, you could bring an all chariot list though witch is kind of nifty. Also you can round up all your core choices in under 100 points total if you feel like it.

Minotaurs are pretty cool, Bestigors look really cool, Razorgors look hilarious and hit really hard, i have no opinion on centigors except i cant own them in my current income bracket.

Rare choices...holy cow, the jabberslyth is a goofy creature you have to build yourself (yay!) and is pretty much a flying US5 terror bomb that kills folks sometimes for being too close. The ghorgon is probably the safest of the 4 choices, great stats and high speed make it a nice alternative to the giant, epecially since it just gains attacks until there are no enemies left on the board. The cygore has potention however every time i bring him all he ever does is hurt himself.

Is it just me or is magic currently biased towards low-casting-value lower-strength spells?

Less chance of a miscast and great against the normal scroll-caddy list.

If your main spell was a 13+ then a scroll could end up making you get nothing off an entire magic phase.

(Even more emphasized with vampire magic where low casts can be cast over and over.)

I wouldn't go that far, lizards and dark elves still play with huge piles of dice with 3-5 being tossed at big spells with no issue. Heck a Supreme Sorceress and slaan can chuck dice at big spells like it is going out of style.

Vampire magic is just the same spell cast over and over. If other armies could cast a spell multiple times you would be seeing that happen, but only VC have it. Its not even that great a spell, but since it can be spammed, it becomes the basis of most VC lists.

I would say that Beastmen are roughly on par with lizards and skaven in terms of power. I think people are focusing too much on the power monster lists and ignoring just how much you can fit into a list if you really tried. Beasts can horde up almost as well as O&G, but without sucking in just about every phase of the game. (don't get me wrong, i like O&G, but the army special rules makes everything difficult.)

It breaks my heart, but beastmen are now around the top of the bottom third. Or the bottom of the middle third, if that is in any way better. The list is just to random to be consistantly performing againts the likes of powerful lists.
All your core (unless you go chariot/centi spam) is basically fodder for the special/rare monsters. Primal fury is ok, but only useful if you get the charge due to no saves and mediocre init. Ambush is ok, but to random to be reliable, and the more points sunk into ambushers means less points into the stuff that is going to win you the game :(.
The lore is on the verge of terrible, the auto-spells are worthless, Esp. Beastial surge. I can think of nothing worse out of a movement spell than randomly moving toward the enemy without being able to charge them. Granted the magic items are tasty, but with situational spells, and no worthwhile direct damage... Really what's the point.
Minotaur/razorgor/rare choices really make the army, but T4-5 and no saves = death by ranged/cavalry/dragons :(... All of which are prodominant in any competetive venue.

Kiwidru wrote:It breaks my heart, but beastmen are now around the top of the bottom third. Or the bottom of the middle third, if that is in any way better. The list is just to random to be consistantly performing againts the likes of powerful lists.
All your core (unless you go chariot/centi spam) is basically fodder for the special/rare monsters. Primal fury is ok, but only useful if you get the charge due to no saves and mediocre init. Ambush is ok, but to random to be reliable, and the more points sunk into ambushers means less points into the stuff that is going to win you the game :(.
The lore is on the verge of terrible, the auto-spells are worthless, Esp. Beastial surge. I can think of nothing worse out of a movement spell than randomly moving toward the enemy without being able to charge them. Granted the magic items are tasty, but with situational spells, and no worthwhile direct damage... Really what's the point.
Minotaur/razorgor/rare choices really make the army, but T4-5 and no saves = death by ranged/cavalry/dragons :(... All of which are prodominant in any competetive venue.

My feelings exactly. I'm probably going to be putting my Beasts army up on the auction block here shortly....makes me very sad as I had so much hope for the army.

TheBloodGod wrote:Is it just me or is magic currently biased towards low-casting-value lower-strength spells?

Less chance of a miscast and great against the normal scroll-caddy list.

If your main spell was a 13+ then a scroll could end up making you get nothing off an entire magic phase.

(Even more emphasized with vampire magic where low casts can be cast over and over.)

I am totally with you on this! With the popularity of scroll caddies, and playing an army that doesn't have overwhelming magic (woodies) I've decided that the best way to go is to try to get off multiple casts of the small spells.

Of course, someone with a ton of power dice are still going to have more success by going the big spell route, but I definitely see where you're going. People have also mentioned that perhaps the beast book reflects what the casting values will be in the 8th edition rulebook- perhaps they'll all be higher, giving older books with their own lores an advantage?

On-topic, I don't see Beastmen bein top-tier... but I think they can hold their own. They're certainly overpowering in close combat, so at a tournament perhaps they will be able to use brute force against other lists that aren't ready for them. The minotaurs only pursuing 1D6" seems to be a real hindrance to their success, in my opinion, since they'll have trouble wiping things out (a good reason to multi-charge units with a chariot as well, I guess).

The key to the beastman is this. It is an entire army of glass cannons. Those cannons are unbelievably powerful, but unbelievably fragile.

I haven't got enough experience yet to make a call on their power level. I think the key to them is the proper mix of the guys who can flee and the guys who are frenzied.

Beastmen we're written for 8th Edition

There's some rumors going around about how in 8th, all infantry will be able to fight in two ranks as if they had spears.

12 Gors with AHW and Full Command arranged 6x2 just got a hell of a lot powerful and only for around 120 points (I think 95 without command)

Another rumor is that the Magic Phase is being switched to before the movement phase. Bestial Surge just got a hellofalot more powerful, eh?

I like the book, its a mid-class book, a 6 on a scale of 1-10, or a 6.5.

Its got real potential, and really versatile. I think Chariots are going to be key for beastmen success in current edition. With Chariots being core AND only 80 points, you need them to help out your mino's or Gors, they're just too squishy otherwise IMHO.

Yeah, (un)gors are going to die, but they are cheap. I'm going to run them like skaven, bolstered by chariots and some more resiliant units.

My FLGS had a beast chariot for $15 on the shelf. It was missing the wood cross-piece which goes over the pigs. Nothing an exacto blade and some balsa sticks can't fix, so I'm up to 2 now. I'm putting the Tuskigor with that one.

Once I finish my skaven...

ZF-

Beasmen can be great, but they will require specific builds according to the enemy.

There are a few 'all comers' lists that will do well in tourneys like:
DoomBull w/100 points of gear
Gorebull w/50 points of gear
Gorebull w/50 points of gear
Gorebull w/50 points of gear
3 Tuskgor Chariots
4 Razorgor Chariots
2 Ghorghons

(Personally I'd use 1 Cygor rather than a ghorghon for anti magic)

But they still don't cut it with VC or Daemons where pretty much everything in the army is woefully undercosted for the abilities they have. Beasts (especially the monsters) are much more appropriately priced.

Yeah, I'm not terribly impressed with the Ghorghon, and agree with the Cygor. I feel like in a Doombull/mino list, there's already plenty of things that hit hard, and the Ghorgon doesn't really seem to do anything different than that. Cygor lets you reach out and touch someone and, as you've mentioned helps against magic users.

RZ

Why Razorgor Chariots? Wouldn't minotaurs or something else be better for the special slots?

indeed, why razorgor chariots? its 145 pts, for, what, another 20 you could bring a herd of 3 razorgors. So lets recap, not counting your pocket book, you cold pretty much have 11 razorgors for the same points value of 4 chariots, 44 wounds against 16 i think (i dont have my book in front of me).

NOW counting the pocket book thats $275 of crazy pigs. If somebody has 11 of these laying around, i have some tau i want to trade you!

Razorgor Chariots have 5 wounds (Still US 4 though as all chariots are US 4)

I really dig razorgor chariots, far over the razors by themselves. The chariots are super maneuverable with free pivots (even if unable to march makes them slower), get S5 impacts, have higher Ld, don't panic when you kill 25% of it, and get primal fury. Back before I realized they weren't US5 I was pretty excited about that too

But really it's the better Ld and the chance at hatred that does it for me. Being able to slap a character on for US5 and no special slot is a bonus as well.

- Salvage

if you slap a character on a chariot it raises its unit strength?

apparently a character gets +2 armor from ranged attacks, but i didn't know about the spare unit strength.

LRB p. 71! Sorcerer + chariot = rank-breaking!

There are some nifty options with the beasts book to make some cracked out chariot riding characters. Brass cleaver is the immediate choice, but loads of ways to get more attaks, etc.

- Salvage

Boss_Salvage wrote:LRB p. 71! Sorcerer + chariot = rank-breaking!

There are some nifty options with the beasts book to make some cracked out chariot riding characters. Brass cleaver is the immediate choice, but loads of ways to get more attaks, etc.

- Salvage

Slug skin 30pts: every enemy base contact takes a Str3 hit before combat.
Many -Limbed Fiend 20pts: +1 attack
Brass Cleaver - 30pts: +1 attack for every model in base contact (only 1 in challenge)
Ramhorn Helm 15pts: 6+ armour Every save the model make gives him an extra attack right then and there.

On the charge.
4 Str 3 hits (Slug skin)*
1 Str 4 attack (gor with Spear)(WS4)
9 Str 5 attacks (Beast Lord) (WS6)*
D6 Str 5 hits (Impact hits)
4 Str6 attacks (Razorgor) (WS3)
*(note i'm assuming you've got in base contact with 4 models)
Total 19-24

Yes that is a rather large 394pts but I'm a fan after trying it and steam rolling through several weaker units with eases. It also make people rather nervous to multi-charge unless they're sure they can beat him.