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So If your like me you'll have had fun with the last codex fielding daemons, warriors and Beastmen. I've got to say I'm still irritated that Beastmen lost so many units to Warriors of Chaos.

Well the New codex is Stronger even if it has lost some of the cool rules. Since I was unsure what to do with my old army I felt I should run through codex noting rules and such as I went along. Since I type I thought I’d share and get some feed back, I’m thinking of writing this up as an article so if at any point I have my head up my but tell me (giving reasons why). After all I know full well that I’m not the greatest fantasy player.

=========== Core
Let’s start with the core Units, you've got to take them, so what are they like now? Well No more Minotaurs or Bestigor which is a shame but you can now take Centigors so not all bad.

Gor Herd ... well when you get past the fact they've no armour (only the option of a shield) they're not bad. Good movement and toughness, Primal Fury when you get it Hatred will prove a nice bonus (LD7 21/36, if you move your beastlord close enough then L9 = 5/6) since beastmen always get rerolls to hit. Frenzy? Well if you get it when you want to charge its a blessing +1a and rerolling hits.

Ungor Herds ... Primal Fury, Weaker with a point low weapon sill, Toughness and Leadership. In many ways I like them, they're cheaper and get a shield to start with.
Ungrol Four-Horn ... I like Ungrol, he ether gets WS+2 & S+1 or gets to be a level1 wizard for that turn.

Ungor Raiders ...Primal Fury, Skirmishers with bows, taking lots of little units and throw half into ambush and enjoy.

Tuskgor Chariot ...Primal Fury. yay, love these, In my view one of the strongest Core choices They wont be winning combat on their own but they'll be an asset on the flank.

Chaos warhounds ... with the option of poisoned attacks I am at a loss with what to do with these guys. At their base price they have allot going for them fast with good weapon skill. Given poison they become a threat to models that would normally be untouchable (though this does cost). However you choose to set them up I feel they'll be ideal to work with Chariots.

=========== Special

Minotaurs ... wow ... they cost lots but worth it, fast strong lots of wounds and attacks. Only problem if it is one) is that they will suffer from frenzy once they start winning combats. Yes it’s nice they start to gain extra attacks (by the looks of it 1 for every victory) they will start getting harder to control. Things to note BloodKine can take a magic item up 25pts ... I've got to say I like the Ramhorn helm and Blackened (see magic armour)

Centigors ... Primal Fury; Well they're your standard Cavalry. Don't take the great weapon it’s a trap, shield and spear have most of the benefits as well as a 4+ armour save. Throwing axes? I don't know be nice if you get charged or have a spell like Bestial Surge. If you take these guys take Ghorros warhoof; he's almost as much as a Gorebull but all centigors are now core.

Harpies ... ok flying unit which can have scout ... If you want to have a unit behind the enemy then maybe take them but I'm not a fan.

Bestigore Herd ... Primal Fury; These guys were great core but there's nothing special about them. Yes you can take a gift of chaos on the gouge horn and a magic standard, to beef them up but still they're missing some thing. Still end of the day they are still relatively cheap models with a great weapon and numbers win battles. If taking a unit I would take a War Banner.

RazorGor Chariots ... Primal Fury; Bigger, Badder cousins of Tuskgor. They cost almost double but do cause fear. Personal preference is that they should be taken for characters rather then as specials.

Razorgor Herd ... Problem is they're not any better then Minotaurs and don't get impact hits like Chariots. That this is a massive problem I've had with beastmen these 3 units are rather samey. Minotaurs are a better unit and RazorGor Chariots are better single units. If you take them I'm sure you'll enjoy all those strength 6 attack as you charge but not for me.

=========== Rare
Rares ... yawn ... generic Giant, dragon (in this case part toad and insect), blind giant and four armed giant.

Cygor ... WS2 ... had to get that over with, now for the good. He has to jobs, he's a stone thrower (in an army with very little ranged weaponry) and he likes to eat wizards. He can re-roll hits (in CC) Vs wizards, people with magic items, undead, or ward saves. Oh not forgetting Magic Resistance 2 and soul eater rule make him fun to use.

Ghotgons ... So imagine a Minotaur the size of a giant, that's what we've got here. Oh and he can swallow people to regain wounds.

Chaos Spawn ... it’s a Spawn ... only possible redeeming features is you can take two as a single rare choice.

Giant ... Did I mention the other Giant like rares? He's a little cheaper.

Jabberslythe ... Effectively a dragon of madness. Poisoned attacks, Bleeding acid and turning people within 12" mad. Dropping him behind your enemy will screw with most people’s plans.

=========== Heroes & Lords
I thought about splitting these guys up more but every time I do I can't escape they're not massively different. (So I don't repeat this every time *can also take armour, shield, great weapon, second hand weapon.)


BeastLord ... Lord, Primal Fury, 100pts of gifts &/or Magic items(and *) Big strong can take a Chariot
Wargor ... Hero, Primal Fury, 50pts of gifts &/or Magic items(and *) can take a Chariot

DoomBull ... Lord 100pts of gifts &/or Magic items(and *) Bigger stronger Cause D3 impact hits.
GoreBull ... Hero 50pts of gifts &/or Magic items(and *)

Great Bray-Shaman ... Lord, Primal Fury, wizard level 3-4 (lore of the wild, beast, death or shadow) 100pts of gifts &/or Magic items. He's also T5 which is rare in a wizard.
Bray-Shaman ... Hero, Primal Fury, wizard level 1-2 (lore of the wild, beast, death or shadow) 50pts of gifts &/or Magic items. (T4)
+In an army with sooo many low Ld units I find my self draw to Lore of the beast, 5+ on Oxen stands may save that expensive unit from running off the board. Also if you take enough shamans you could set up so one of them is likely to get and cast Savage Dominion.

Special character Lords and Heros ... These guys are bigger badder versions of the above (¬_¬) with there own rules weapons and without options (you can upgrade chariots).

=========== Gifts of Chaos
At first I thought some of these were great then I saw you’re only able to take each one once. I'll Skip the bad ones

Crown of Horns ... 75pts for stubborn. This is a Joke unless you’re building a death star unit.

Many-Limbed Fiend ... one extra attack at base strength. (Good for Doom or Gore bull)

Gouge-Tusks ... All close combat attacks are armour piercing. One of the best upgrades since it works with any weapon you give the model.

Gnarled Hide ...5+ scaly skin. How else are you going to get a beastman up to 1+ armour save? (shield, heavy armour, and Ramhorn helm in close combat to the front)

=========== Magic Items
====weapons
Primeval Club ... WHAT THE HELL??? No one should ever take this over-priced piece of rubbish.

Axe of Men ... Costs lots but then it does give you Killing blow and if you kill an enemy character in challenge (very likely) then he and the unit he leads is Unbreakable and cause Terror ...

Stonecrusher Mace ... So this cost Lots less then Primeval Club but give +3 strength (and str10 vs warmachines, chariots and buildings). I'm at a loss why any one would take Primeval Club when they can take this for less.

Hunting Spear ... As I've mentioned before beastmen have little in the way of ranged weapons. Turns any lord or hero into a short ranged Bolt thrower. I do like this even though it will be a shot on BS3, after all if it hits then we're look at some good damage.

Steel Claws ... extra attacks (D3) on a 6 ignores armour saves ... what’s not to like?

====Armour
TrollHide ...wonder what this does? Yep light armour gives Regeneration ... bit pricey would only use this on a Doombull.

Blackened Plate ... Heavy Armour, 2+ ward save vs flaming attacks and bonus the unit gets 4+ ward save against flaming attacks. Cheap great effect.

Ramhorn Helm ... cheapest armour only giving the smallest upgrade to the save. However when you make the save (I’m assuming that you've taken heavy armour, a shield and Gnarled hide or riding a chariot) he may make an extra attack at his base strength ... sounds great.

====Enchanted Items
Shard of the Herdstone ... shaman within 6" gain an extra power dice; nice even if it does force you to gather your shaman round it.

Horn of the great hunt ... bound spell, Bestial Surge with a 36" range. Meh could be much better (after rereading you don't get to charge ... so what's the point)

Stone of Spite ... I'm ignorant of what sort of arcane item are out there and whether they're taken. But it’s not expensive and idea of blowing them up sounds fun. (should be noted it affects friends and foes alike so don’t give the model an arcane item ^_^)

====Arcane Items
Skull of Rarkos ... mentioned the Shaman huddling round the herdstone ... Every one with 6" (including the bearer) +1 to casting result. (Do wonder if these stack)

===End===

wow you still here? Thanks for reading.

for gifts and items i think you left out at least 2 pretty important ones, and you didnt warn people how terrible lore of the wild is, hehe.

Brass Cleaver 30pts. Gain bonus attacks for models in base contact. (hint. put him on a chariot)
Slugskin 30pts. Models in base contact take str 3 hits at combat start (hint. put him on a chariot)

A few items

Razergors - with movement 7 and no bloodgreed these guys are far faster than minotaurs and able to run units to the ground. They also do more damage on the first charge (but not charges after) giving them some uses outside what you mentioned.

Centagores - personally I would never take a T4 AS4+ guy who costs as much as these idiots do. Especially if they do not do significant damage when not charging due to poor initiative..

Doom bull and gore bulls give their unit frenzy. This is a pretty big bonus as it removes the problem of panic from the unit in question. They also do amazing things if you give them the reroll to hit axes. All in all even a mildly tooled up gore bull will do hideous things to enemy units. These guys are trucks.



Most people rip on gores but i think that proper use of ambush will make these guys into the points efficient killers they want to be. Unfortunately they will die very easily if charged so you have to be careful with how you use them. Or back them up with gorebulls and let them run rampant across enemy lines killing and slaying.

Appreciate all the time you took to post up here, but I gotta say, there's no substitute for playing. I've seen a lot of book analysis and math-hammer on the beasts, but not nearly as many battle reports and actual experience. If you've got the models, Tri, get some games in, and give us a holler on how it went!

RZ

@zeke

battle experience eh. here's how most of my battles break down, my nemesis (low leadership) plagues most of my units and i pray every turn that i dont have to take any terror checks. I have a pretty good record with battles, undead cause a real issue and high elves a tough nut to crack (theres a "guy" at our shop that i play like twice a month and cannot beat no matter my tactic or army)

because of such low leadership, using a ton of small units to ambush and such is a risky idea because a lot of them will break for one reason or another before they see combat.
my favorite unit is the 25 man brick of gors with shields using my BSB with war banner. I know i can do this with any army, but such a nice brick is invaluable in my book.

rare choices. ghorgan is really cool, but i think i would just use another unit of minos instead for the points. Jabberslyth is AWESOME, i have killed several hero characters that rolled a little too high on the insanity rolls. The cygor has a lot of potential, especially in lower point games. Every time i bring my cygor the the table he hurts himself 6 turns in a row so it really doesnt work out for me.

HA! it finally happened...my cygor just went a whole game without hurting himself AND most of his rocks hit home!

Thus far, his caster interference ability is negligible, though i suppose it only has to work once for it to be worth it all.

playing a 1500 pointer against VC(all ld7) and he didnt cause any miscasts. Though he did kill some 3 blood knights, a corpse cart and about 10 zombies via rockfall.

So, with that the cygor becomes my #1 rare choice pick with the jabberslyth in a close 2nd. the jabberslyth's coolness is watered down by several ITP units in so many armies (although, i have killed 2 chaos sorcerers with insanity thus far).

Thanks for feed back ... yes I am play testing but planning helps. I agree infamousxiii, love the Cygor I'm proxying 2 at the moment unlike you I normally only suffer one wound between the 2 through misfire.

However I'm have great luck with my Centigors, as Core they're great for backing up Minotaurs (Small units of 5 work quite nicely). Drunken is both a pain and a blessing depending on what I need.


Any way I'll add these to the first post soon but for now ...

=====Amendment
DoomBull ... Lord 100pts of gifts &/or Magic items(and *) Bigger stronger Cause D3 impact hits. Frenzy which is pasted on to any one he is with.
GoreBull ... Hero 50pts of gifts &/or Magic items(and *) Bigger stronger Cause D3 impact hits. Frenzy which is pasted on to any one he is with.


Centigors ... Primal Fury; Well they're your standard Cavalry. Don't take the great weapon it’s a trap, shield and spear have most of the benefits as well as a 4+ armour save. Throwing axes? I don't know be nice if you get charged or have a spell like Wolf hunts. If you take these guys take Ghorros warhoof; he's almost as much as a Gorebull but all centigors are now core.
There low Initiative means you really must charge … that said their drunken rule can make up for this, effectively your I4, reroll Primal fury or stubborn. If taken as core (and lots) your likely to get a mix of these.

Razorgor Herd ... Problem is they're not any better then Minotaurs and don't get impact hits like Chariots. That this is a massive problem I've had with beastmen these 3 units are rather samey. Minotaurs are a better unit and RazorGor Chariots are better single units. If you take them I'm sure you'll enjoy all those strength 6 attack as you charge but not for me. This being said they are strength 6 on the charge and will be more likely to catch people that run.

Combos ….
Beastlord + Brass Cleaver + Slugskin + Gouge-Tusks + Razorgor Chariot 365pts. In return you get …
…3* Strength 3 hits before any attacks
…D6 Strength 5 impact hits
…4+3* Strength 5 attacks which are amour piecing (combines to -3)
…One attack from a gor with a spear (Str3 & Str4 on the charge)
…4 attacks from the Razorgor (Str5 & Str6 on the charge)
(*assuming that you 3 in base contact … easy enough to get 4 but not always)
So on the charge that a nice total of 16-21 attacks/hits on the charge

Bray-shaman + Level 2 + Hunting spear + Tuskgor chariot 205pts. What you have is moving a bolt thrower … because of this I like to take the Lore of Death. He doesn’t really want to get into combat just skirt round throwing the hunting spear and what ever he can manage to cast.

=====Lore of the Wild
A lot of people dislike this … some of the spells are suspect however I don’t think that they are completely useless…

Bestial Surge… Why would you want this? D6+1” but don’t charge? Yep not my first choice ether but then such is the case with most exchange spells. What it does do nicely is help you get Ambushing (from your table edge) and Rallied units into the fight. 2/10

1.Viletide … Since most things are at least T3-4 your going to be rolling 6’s … so even though you’re likely to get an average of 15 hits only 2.5 wounds will be caused. 0.5/10

2. Devolve … If combined with Manbane standard this can work nicely. Every enemy within 12” must take a Leadership test wound (without an armour save) for each point they fail by. 3/10

3. Bray-Scream … Pick a character within 12” (including the shaman) he then has a strength 3 breath weapon with no armour saves allowed. 6/10

4. Traitor-Kin … After seeing a dragon eat its rider and then roll “uh?” I can’t help but like this. 8/10

5. Mantle of Ghorok … Slightly random but another spell I can’t help but love. Friendly character within 6” (including the shaman) gets +D6 Strength & +D6 Attacks …. 6/10

6. Savage Dominion … This spell will unbalance the game but to cast it you need to set up for it (… Shard of the Herd-stone and Skull of Rarkos help so much …). 5/10 (I would put said 7 but dispel scrolls will just shut it down)

Tri wrote:
=====Lore of the Wild
A lot of people dislike this … some of the spells are suspect however I don’t think that they are completely useless…

Bestial Surge… Why would you want this? D6+1” but don’t charge? Yep not my first choice ether but then such is the case with most exchange spells. What it does do nicely is help you get Ambushing (from your table edge) and Rallied units into the fight. 2/10

1.Viletide … Since most things are at least T3-4 your going to be rolling 6’s … so even though you’re likely to get an average of 15 hits only 2.5 wounds will be caused. 0.5/10

2. Devolve … If combined with Manbane standard this can work nicely. Every enemy within 12” must take a Leadership test wound (without an armour save) for each point they fail by. 3/10

3. Bray-Scream … Pick a character within 12” (including the shaman) he then has a strength 3 breath weapon with no armour saves allowed. I like this a lot since it works nicely when cast on an ambushing halfhorn. 7/10

4. Traitor-Kin … After seeing a dragon eat its rider and then roll “uh?” I can’t help but like this. 8/10

5. Mantle of Ghorok … Slightly random but another spell I can’t help but love. Friendly character within 6” (including the shaman) gets +D6 Strength & +D6 Attacks …. So you really don’t want to cast this on any one with only one wound. That said its only odds of 11/36 so what if you loose a 11pt half horn. 7/10

6. Savage Dominion … This spell will unbalance the game but to cast it you need to set up for it (… Shard of the Herd-stone and Skull of Rarkos help so much …). 5/10 (I would put said 7 but dispel scrolls will just shut it down)

Do keep in mind that unit champions are not characters, so #3 & 5 do not affect ungor half-horns. I like the spell list myself, but with those mammoth casting costs I would plan on taking the #0 spell on 2 level 2's and just chucking 3 dice into it twice. Then have a jabber handy for casting savage dominion if the other dude miscasts the right way

Cheers for the effort putting your thoughts on the book together. I'm curious to know what your list currently looks like, if you're going mino-spam, chariot-spam, etc?

- Salvage

Boss_Salvage wrote:
Do keep in mind that unit champions are not characters, so #3 & 5 do not affect ungor half-horns. I like the spell list myself, but with those mammoth casting costs I would plan on taking the #0 spell on 2 level 2's and just chucking 3 dice into it twice. Then have a jabber handy for casting savage dominion if the other dude miscasts the right way

My mistake I'll have to apologize to him (too long playing 40k where you get IC and upgrade characters) ... though the spell would work better if they were included ... maybe that is a change we'll see in 8th.

Cheers for the effort putting your thoughts on the book together. I'm curious to know what your list currently looks like, if you're going mino-spam, chariot-spam, etc?

I've no real set list yet, I'm trying different units. Best I can say is what I’ll normally take ...Note any unit over 100pts always gets a musician if they run I want them to rally.

One unit of Cenitgor with ghorros (12) and then two to three Cenitgor (5). I'm a fan of cavalry, they cost a bit but I find they work.

Depending on the size of the game i may also include lots of 5 man Raiders (half ambushing as always). If Include them I'll normal also have a shaman with Bestial Surge. Move them up as far as i can then Bestial surge them some more. Yes they will die but then they were going to die any way ... at least this way you'll get some shots off.

Normally I'll also take 2 Cygor. After all nothing like throwing rocks at people.

One unit I've been having unexpected results is the Bestigor Herd; In low points games i rarely have the points to take enough Minotaurs (I feel you need at least 1 rank) so i tried a Gorebull in with them. Fear and Frenzy they've been know to walk through much tougher enemies then you'd expect. Nice bonus if you give them the Manbane standard.

Lords and heroes ... My armies almost always have 2+ shamans on a Tuskgor chariot they run round getting extra shooting attacks (Lore of Death)

The cygors dont have to actually get their ability to work. Just the threat makes wizards throw extra dice at spells thereby limiting the amount of spells they can cast in a turn.

Its kind of like the cursed ring of hotec. Tell someone you have it an they wont cast high level magic missiles at you. Ever.

Just thought I'd post this since some comments we're related to it.

Beastmen we're written for 8th Edition

There's some rumors going around about how in 8th, all infantry will be able to fight in two ranks as if they had spears.

12 Gors with AHW and Full Command arranged 6x2 just got a hell of a lot powerful and only for around 120 points (I think 95 without command)

Another rumor is that the Magic Phase is being switched to before the movement phase. Bestial Surge just got a hellofalot more powerful, eh?

If magic phase moves before movement I will try my hardest never to complain about anything ever again.

I've only been playing since this edition. Is there a history over the years of jostling around the phases in a turn? Was Ed 1 seriously different?

Just wondering.

ZF-

Zad Fnark wrote:I've only been playing since this edition. Is there a history over the years of jostling around the phases in a turn? Was Ed 1 seriously different?

Just wondering.

ZF-

Been some massive changes, read here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warhammer_Fantasy_Battle