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The 1st Army, which can be referred to as black, is my first IG army that played against Space Wolves. It did decently enough killing roughly 2/3rds of his army (comprised of a dread, a pred, 3 grey hunter squads one in drop pod, a 10 man term squad, a missile launcher devestator squad, and land speeder which popped all my Fast tanks by turn two) before being completely wiped out.The second Army is for his Tyranids (which is 2 termagaunt squads,1 warriors, 1 squad hermagaunts,1 trygon,1 tyrannofex,1 carnifex, 1 squad genestealers,1 lictor, a hive tyrant, and probably 2 zoanthropes). MY question to experienced IG players is, would the first army be best at taking out the tyranids, or would the second be better, and feel free to suggest alterations. The only thing that I will not change is the master of the fleet and the astropath as we are both heavy fans of outflanking, and i want to suspend his as long as possible. I personally am in favor of the second army, which can be called olive, because i feel like it was a wider range of movement with the mobile command unit, and the storm troopers, penal legion, and sentinels all outflanking, and the ratlings infiltrating. Its really hard for me to gauge though because there is no Mech in Nidz and I have to be a good MC and massive troop killer. Anyway here are the two lists:


First army

HQ

CCS
Carapace armor
VC
2 Meltas
PF on Commander
Officer of Fleet
Astropath
170 points

Primaris Psyker
70 points

Troops

2 Veterans squads
2 Meltas
PF
VC
7 shotguns
Grenadier Doctrine
280 points

2 Veterans squads
LC
2 PG
240 points

Penal Legion
80 points

Fast

1 combined Unit of 2 sentinels
LC
140 points

1 combined unit of 2 Banewolfs and 1 Devil Dog
Banes have
HF
Devil has
Multi Melta
400 points

Elite

7 Storm Troopers
2 extra
2 Meltas
PW
147

Heavy

1 Medusa
Enclosed
150 points

1 LR Vanquisher
LC
170 points

1 LR Battle Tank
150 points

total 1997

Second Army

HQ

CCS
Carapace Armor
2 Meltas
1 HF
VC
Regimental Standard
Commander with PF and PP
Astropath
Officer of Fleet
in
Chimera
Extra armor
HB
285 points

Troops

2 Veteran Squads
LC
Melta
VC
PF
240 points

Veteran Squad
3 Meltas
Shotguns
VC
PF & PP
130 points

Penal Legion
80 points

Fast

2 Banewolfs squads
Multi melta
Smoke Launchers
300 points

1 Combined unit of 2 Scout Sentinels
LC
Hunter Killer
120 points

Elite

2 storm troopers squads
Extra soldier with melta
PW
232 points

Ratlings
2 Extra Ratlings
50 points

Heavy

Medusa
Enclosed
Camo Netting
180 points

1 unit of 2 Hydras
Camo Netting
190 points

1 LR Battle Tank
PC sponsons
HF
Camo netting
210 points

damn thats long, well tell me what you think.

2 storm troopers squads
Extra soldier with melta
PW
232 wasted points

drop em ad take Creed and Kell instead(this will also earn you back all vox points and the PF/PP points)

2 Veteran Squads
LC
Melta
VC
PF
240 points

this should be Lascannon and Plasma.

use remaining points for a chimera on your melta vets.

Ok both lists are quite a-like but both need a fair bit of fine tuning.

Firstly, the CCS. It's a bit messed up. Drop the vox because you won't need it and also the power fist, guard and especially units of 5 do not belong in combat. Give them meltas which they will act as a suicide squad or plasma guns. They will need a chimera too.

Vets with meltas will never get into range without a valkyrie or chimera. Drop the vox and power fist on these too. If you really want take demos so you can melta bomb stuff next turn if your mass melta fire doesn't do the trick.

A banewolf and devil dog do not go together. Reason is because they're in a squad and must fire at the same target. So if the dog pops a transport the wolf has nothing to fire at. You want these in seperate FOC slots so they can double team a target, pop the transport with the dog, which btw needs a hull mounted multi melta and then hose down the survivors with the banewolf - sorted!

Sentinels are better with autocannons. Use them to outflank and get rear armour shots in. The lascannons cost too mcuh and you'll hit just as much as you miss. At least with multiple shots you can hit something.

Storm troopers are meh.

Medusa no bastion breacher shells for S10 2D6 AP1 shot?

I would drop the battle tank and take more ordnance or hydras. Seems to fit your heavy support build and you haven't got one lonely tank then.

I think these are good suggestions, except this is the last game I can play with IG, as this is my friends army and it is getting shipped after this game, and I will be definitely fighting nids, so no armor, just wounding models.

I will replace the Melta Gun in the Vet squad with a plasma, and redo the CCS, and i learned my mistake with the Devil Dog Bane Wolf combo and will never be doing THAT again.

I might limit myself to one storm trooper squad as I know he will probably outflank with genestealers and I want to flank him on the same side and at least kill a couple.

Quick Question: If I give the Medusa Bastion Breacher does that mean I have the option of firing either of the two Rounds, or can I only fire the one?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
okay I made in the army olive I changed

command squad 4 Meltas, PF, Astropath, and Officer of Fleet In Chimera with EA and HF.

I took out the VC and PP in all the squads, and put in a PG in the two LC Veterans squads.

I took out the extra troop in the Storm Troopers, I decided I would keep them just to mix it up a bit.

And I took off the Camo Netting from the Hydras and made the LR a Demolisher,

Everything else is the same

Now I have 100 Points to spare, any Ideas? I was thinking a chimera for the One 3 Melta squad, or another 3 melta vet squad no PF, or maybe trying to trim off another couple points and squeezing in another Ordnance Vehicle.

well the battle went better than I expected. The suggestions were very helpful, especially the CCS squad, 4 meltas is super deadly. The storm troopers ended up taking out a Hive tyrant and two guards, so they were definitely worth it. The only problem I encountered was my opponent had the spore drop pods and a total of 8 units in reserve. I only had 4. Other wise it was a good game, I took out 3/4 of his army with only a few monstrous creatures being the game decider. If any body has any good suggestions on how to take out trygons and zoanthropes with guard tell me now!. I will try refining my list for the next one.

How did the storm troopers manage to take out a hive tyrant, they need 6's to wound. Or did they get lucky?

Trygons fails to plasma. Zoanthropes are tough because of the invulnerable save but instant death with a battle cannon shot can work if they fail the invulnerable. Failing that rapid fire lasguns should take off some wounds, weight of fire will be best for these.

Though some changes to the second list:

Drop the regimental standard as these guys don't belong in close combat.

The lascannons and meltaguns do not go together in the veteran squad. You want the melta up close so if you do that then the lascannon cannot fire. best give the vets 3 special weapons. Lascannon and a meltagun is a bad combo.

Penal legion?

I wouldn't take the h-k's on the sentinels as they hit just as much as miss and with a one shot is it worth it?

Storm troops are a shooting unit. They cannot assault if they fire so why the power weapon? They will get mauled in c.c anyway so save yourself some points there.

The leman russ doesn't need camo netting as it won't be in cover more than likely like a artillery piece would be.

theadmiraloffun wrote:well the battle went better than I expected. The suggestions were very helpful, especially the CCS squad, 4 meltas is super deadly. The storm troopers ended up taking out a Hive tyrant and two guards, so they were definitely worth it. The only problem I encountered was my opponent had the spore drop pods and a total of 8 units in reserve. I only had 4. Other wise it was a good game, I took out 3/4 of his army with only a few monstrous creatures being the game decider. If any body has any good suggestions on how to take out trygons and zoanthropes with guard tell me now!. I will try refining my list for the next one.

Easiest way to deal with Zoes is to take a couple of grey knight terminators, give them a few psycannons and pair them with an inquisitor and 2 mystics. Zoes drop in and the mystics tell the terminators to shoot the zoes. Zoes get no save and will proceed to die. Daemon hunters codex will tell you what units the IG can take.

Mercer: The Hive tyrant took two volleys of 7 hotshot lasguns to the dome and 2 meltas, earlier in the game I wounded him with a lascannon too, after taking out two gaurds. I think people don't give enough credit to Storm troopers, but maybe thats because I pay more attention to the ap than the strength in a lot of cases, and it paid off, even with 6's thats no armour save for a lot of tyranids, which can be really nasty when outflanking. try em out they might surprise you.

I did end up dropping the hf and regimental standard in the CCS, and making it a 4 melta squad with a pf in a chimera.

Those trygons are tricky though I did get some wounds on him, plasma/las is definitely the way to go in HW squads.

Yeah the penal legion is a bit of a stretch, though they're not bad when out flanking and with the proper bonuses for the points (3-6 ) they can really bog down some units (though I got unlucky and got 1-2 the last two games, so probably not worth the risk)

Yeah H-K missles are a point sink and so are the power weapons in the storm trooper squad.

I did end up dropping the camo netting on all the tanks except the Medusa, I figured all the other tanks would be moving so it would work.

Sargow: could you give me a rough estimate on that squad, I figure if its too pricey ie over 225 points its probably not worth taking out two less expensive models when lascannons or meltas could do the trick.

I'm too lazy to read all the posts but Your Leman Russ option could be a 'Punisher' 20 shots and ad three heavy Bolters and the Nids will be reeling squad by squad!

Storm Troopers have their place, especially if your intent on outflanking and using Deep Strike etc... I'd take Ogryns ahead of them though! 3 wounds, 3 attacks, furious charge and Ripper Guns! They're a menace and I've taken out power armour troops with them aplenty! Just make sure you have a Lord Comm to join them else they'll be running away!

I agree with previous posters about the veterans and the uneccessary use ofpower wepaons in shooty squads. Upgrade to Harker for the Vets and you get a movable HB as well as Stealth and Infiltrate! It's worth it if you can infiltrate into decent cover out of assault range... difficult against nids i know! Plasma Guns ahead of Meltas, defo against nids. Against tank heavy armirs I'd defo use meltas though... just get real close!

Good Luck!




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, advice for Trygons! RUN!

No really... run, to GW and buy a Valkyrie Squadron! £90 well spent?

I would choose the second list but why Multi -Melta's on Banewolfs? Storm troopers are a bit useless. You could have another tank for that price. I would choose conscripts against nids w/ chenkov then they would provide mass firepower and a usefull 'send in the next wave' rule.

theadmiraloffun wrote:Mercer: The Hive tyrant took two volleys of 7 hotshot lasguns to the dome and 2 meltas, earlier in the game I wounded him with a lascannon too, after taking out two gaurds. I think people don't give enough credit to Storm troopers, but maybe thats because I pay more attention to the ap than the strength in a lot of cases, and it paid off, even with 6's thats no armour save for a lot of tyranids, which can be really nasty when outflanking. try em out they might surprise you.

I did end up dropping the hf and regimental standard in the CCS, and making it a 4 melta squad with a pf in a chimera.

Those trygons are tricky though I did get some wounds on him, plasma/las is definitely the way to go in HW squads.

Yeah the penal legion is a bit of a stretch, though they're not bad when out flanking and with the proper bonuses for the points (3-6 ) they can really bog down some units (though I got unlucky and got 1-2 the last two games, so probably not worth the risk)

Yeah H-K missles are a point sink and so are the power weapons in the storm trooper squad.

I did end up dropping the camo netting on all the tanks except the Medusa, I figured all the other tanks would be moving so it would work.

Aye, I thought that might be the case. If a tyrant is on foot then 2 tyrant guard is best used and then pop half the unit in cover, so either a cheap gaunt screen or use terrain. Though < ap3 weapons really ruin it's day.

Good times about the other changes.

theadmiraloffun: how exactly d0 you wound a T6 creature with STR 3 lasguns?

not saying it is impossible; I just wouldn't rely on it.

I like how killing the tyrant is some sort of miracle, which in a way it is.

I ended up using lascannons and ordnance to wound the squad the first turn, which almost killed one and wounded the other and a banewolf to flame them and multimelta them. Then I think there was a tyrant and a guard with one wound left so i outflanked and got 2 wounds with a melta and then 2 more wounds with the volley of hot shot las. Its a bit of a stretch to be rolling sixes, but if you do get them you remove some wounds with that ap. yeah i probably wont rely on it anymore, unless in larger games where I can have more leeway with points.

I am not saying killing a tyrant is impossible, just doing it with hotshot lasguns is .. unreliable

It is unreliable and probably committed more points into killing the tyrant than the tyrant is worth lol.