Orks vs The Bugs...

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**QuietOrkmi**

When building an Ork list (Mechanized) with a large Nid presence at the FLGS, what should I watch out for.

Here is the gist of my list.

HQ:Ghazghkull & KFF Mek with a Powerklaw
Troop: 3x Battlewagon Mob, (6)Manz in Trukks
Elite: 2x (6)Manz in Trukks, (15)Lootas
Fast Attack: 2x (3)Rokkit Buggies
Heavy Support: 3x Battlewagon

All Trukks have the following: Reinforced Rams, Boarding Planks

All Battlewagons have the following: Big Shoota, Deffrolla, Grot Riggers, Armor Plates,

Exception: The Battlewagon containing the Big Mek, has a Boarding plank in addition to the above.

All Battlewagon Mobs have the following: A mob of 18, This houses Ghaz well, and incase his rides blows up, he joins the other unit of 18.

Exception: The Mob contain the KFF Big Mek has a mob of 19

I would like to state that this is for a 2500 point tournament and thus I would see other armies besides Nids... Currently about 1/3 of our players use the bugs so I would like to build with them in mind, however I still need to be competitive against other armies ranging from horde orks, to mech eldar.

Edit: I am not sure if this would go in army list, because I am asking about tactics... I just felt that people could give me better advice on things if they knew what I am running...

**despoiler52**

Your big mek with KFF seems out of place here, please explain more indepth about your battle plan. Unless your KFF can get at least two BW under it's radius it's too many point/value. The PK on the mek counteracts it's function, it's a support character, put it in CC and you lose it's advantage. Grabba claw doesn't fit well with army type, I'd say drop it. MANZ arn't great think about why you want them, kommando unit needs snikrot, right now you just have expensive orks. Why pay twice the points for a unit whose only advantage is to be 6" farther ahead when twice the origonal unit will get there with more then that kommado unit. Even if you want snikrot I'd suggest paring that unit down. I'm assuming you give every boy mob a PK and a bosspole, if not do so. Boarding planks on boys BW are very useful. I don't know how you are playing with your dethkoptas, please explain, because if their suicide pare them wat down.

**QuietOrkmi**

Mek is not meant to leave the Battlewagon, this allows the mek to contribute when everyone else has disembarked.

Kommandos do not need snikrot because they lose S9 power weapons and cost waaay too much. They are meant to add to the target saturation and add to the T2 assault. You infiltrate them... either 12" out of LOS or 18" within. I prefer within cover near my opponent.

Deff Koptas are meant to take out transports T1 with 3 S7 autohit, S8 shot to rear. Yes they will Die T1 of my opponent's turn.

yes assumed correctly, Mobs of boyz have Nob leading them with a PK and a BP.

Manz are there as more target saturation. The W2 and 2+ save means 12 wounds to kill them. They are a bully unit and hit regular troops. Another use for them is a Mass Anti-vehicle rush, as I multi-assault.

The KFF is measured from the hull of the vehicle and thus becomes a large bubble.

The Idea is to hit the enemy T2, with everything at once. Kommandos are meant as area denial and take over areas with cover. MANS are meant for extra target saturation and to tie up my opponent's regular troops. The Nobz are there as a durable troop choice that can still kick butt. (without costing me an arm and leg)

18" away does not mean 6" closer than regular troops... as the enemy would have to be spread over the entire course of the board.

**despoiler52**

I see you prefer MANZ and kommandoes, I do not, if you find they work for you by all means go ahead. But as you said your mek does not leave the transport, so why does he have a power claw. Also you do know that units in CC don't benift from KFF?

**Skarboy**

Against bugs, you've got to deal with MCs and hordes. Burnas deal with hordes quite well, so maybe consider adding them. I could see your list having issues with MCs after Ghaz. Not sure what to recommend, maybe tankbustas? MANZ and Nobz will have issues with MCs denying saves and FNP.

**BeRzErKeR**

Keep those MANZ, as that many S9 PKs absolutely tear up TMCs. However, accept the fact that you'll take a casualty or two before you get to strike back. A Carnifex will probably eat a pair of MANZ before you butcher it.

Right now you have your most expensive and slowest units in the weakest transports, and your weakest units in the best transports. This seems backwards to me. I would combine the MANZ into one squad with Ghaz in one BW (perhaps dropping a couple of MANZ to save points), the Nobz and BM in another, the third keeps the boyz, and split your other boyz into 3 squads of 12 in the trukks. This also adds another PK Nob to the table, which is a Good Thing (TM).

Doing it this way also opens up two Heavy Support slots and one extra Elite slot, because your MANZ are combined and you can take the BW as dedicated transports for them and your Nobz. With only a little points-shaving you could then do one of a couple fun things;

1) Take even moar Battlewagons with Deff Rollas, and cackle gleefully as you krush the enemy into a fine powder. This would allow you to ditch the trukks and give everyone a pimped-out ride.

2) Take a 3x kannon battery or two, which are good TMC killers as well as decent anti-horde.

3) In your free Elites slot, take some Lootas. They are really excellent against bugs.

**QuietOrkmi**

As for slowest unit in weakest transport... they start behind the battlewagons. and the KFF is for making sure that the vehicles do not get blown out from under me.

The Idea with Ghazghkull leading boyz over manz is that it spreads out my threats. I used to run an ork death star with Ghaz, Grotsnik, Manz with cybork bodies and it could devour entire armies... but it was easy to trap and put a lot of my forces in one spot.

I could see dropping both Deff koptas for another squadron of buggies to give me 3 extra S8 shots. I can spread them out in front of my Battlewagons, screening enemies from assaulting my battlewagons.

To make up for it, 15 lootas for the Kommandos... after some thought, they perform the same function. Area Denial! I deploy them on one side of the table and the rest of my army on the other, preferable inside area terrain.

I changed the Nobz to more Manz, 6 Manz translates into 1 dead TMC on the charge... Ideally I would not have my Manz anywhere near TMC, the speed of the trukks pretty much seals it that I choose whom I assault. Boyz have the wounds to beat TMC in CC.

I am not worried about the fragility of trukks, staying obscured and out of LOS, means that they are pretty safe...

**Count Bonchula**

this looks like a recipe for a lot of walking MANZ. zoanthropes in spores and hive guard are going to be putting your MANZ on the ground without too much trouble, then the nid player is free to tie them up with spawned termagants preventing you from delivering those s9 attacks on the MCs

**tetrisphreak**

A few things I hate to see on the ork side of the table when i'm fielding my trygons/tervigons list:

zzap gunz
meganobz (Manz, as i see you call them)
nobz all with pk's (especially on bikes)
rokkits (koptas, or buggies)
battlewagons w/ deffrollas - S10 hits on anything sucks.

things i do not fear on an ork list:
mobz of boyz, even with pk's (there's only 3 attacks coming my way that i worry about in that squad, tryggie or genestealers will take 'em out)
trukks w/ boyz
killa kanz/deff dreadz
kommandoz, rokkit boyz, gretchin

i'm not sure right now about lootas, or burnaz, they both sound like they'd put a hurt on my army but i've never played against anyone using them. Same goes for looted wagons with boomguns. S8 large blast, right? Ouch for beasties and gribblies alike.

my 2 cents.
-tetris

**BishopX**

Burnaz in a battle wagon are really scary scary to nids, especially if there is a kff attached. Either move 6" and lay down 10 optimal templates to kill the little bugs move 12" for the good ol' flame and charge bit.

**QuietOrkmi**

Hmmm.... I will have to play test the strength of 15 lootas against 15 burnas... If I decide of the Burnas I will have to refund myself 154 points...

I have no idea what those points would be spent on...