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Ok, I'm confused.

I've been looking at the IG 'dex. apparently, they can take heavy flamers.

This raises a question:

why can a single imperial guardsman carry a heavy flamer, but not an 8' Space marine

Is this just to keep it evenly-powered.

I'm confused.

They can...


Sterngaurd and LotD both have the option to take them

Besides, the weight of a flamer isnt the firing section, its the fuel. The IG will be perfectly happy to have other people carry the fuel, or just send they guy in with little fuel, as he's likely to die anyway. The SM won't, because it lowers the marines ability to be self sufficent.

Why are Imperial Guard codex Grenade Launchers "Assault 1" while Codex Space Marine GLs are Rapid Fire?

Different codexes are different.

IG GL are Assault 1, but as kanluwen said, if different codexes are different

Whats next Solon? Do you want to give SM Plasma Rifles just because Tau have them? Or how about Incinerators?

SM scout bikes have GL iirc that are assault based.

And IG need all the "x2" weapons they can get because they can't hit anything otherwise.

It annoys me a bit as well, Solon.

But then, the Space Marines really don't want for things that ignore cover so it kind of makes sense.

I just have to make due with the Heavy Flamers on my Ironclads and Dreads.

Black Antelope wrote:IG GL are Assault 1, but as kanluwen said, if different codexes are different

Whats next Solon? Do you want to give SM Plasma Rifles just because Tau have them? Or how about Incinerators?

Quick, change your post so it doesn't look like I'm wrong!

But yeah. Your posts are kinda ridiculous sometimes, Solon. Do you want Marines to have Sternguard Veteran Squads as Troops--simply because Imperial Guard have Hardened Veterans as Troops?

@ Solon: Go ahead and play test this question. Give your SM's all of the Heavy Flammers you can, play against a competant opponent and post a battle report. I can tell you right now what the out come is going to be.

The IGs most obvious weakness is their relativly light infantry, logically this can be adapted for by keeping them in cover. While you are keeping your models in cover (or in other words stationary) you can afford to give them Heavy Weapons like the HF, HB, LC and so on. Over coming cover saves and heavy firepower is as simple as assaulting the units hiding behind the wall. So to counter this the IG need a weapon that although short range packs a punch against units who are high in numbers. Enter the Heavy Flamer.

Tactical Marines are Heavy Infantry, they can move around the battle field and fight in close combat relativly confident that their armor will protect them. They cannot however afford to stand in the open and shoot away, so they have to keep moving. Giving them short range Heavy Weapons so that they cannot move or run doesn't make seanse so Gulliman did not do it. This is why the HF is avalible on that fancy little hover car of theirs where it can move and shoot but it is not given to units who are required to stay mobile like Tac\Assault Marines or units who specialize in long ranged combat like Devastators.

Are you jealous of the IG or something?

Kanluwen wrote:

Black Antelope wrote:
Whats next Solon? Do you want to give SM Plasma Rifles just because Tau have them? Or how about Incinerators?

But yeah. Your posts are kinda ridiculous sometimes, Solon. Do you want Marines to have Sternguard Veteran Squads as Troops--simply because Imperial Guard have Hardened Veterans as Troops?

Those are a bit of a jump from asking why Tactical Marines can't take Heavy Flamers, wouldn't you say?

The out of fluff reason is originally IG could not. Only Catachans could but their codex had other limitations that balanced it (plus Cats are from a heavy gravity world).

But when the Cats lost their codex the heavy flamer was folded in as an option for all IG, no fluff reason given.

As for why the marines cannot take it, we can invent all sorts of reasons, too much fuel to carry, too great a chance of the fuel exploding and killing a precious marine, the Codex Astres was written 10,000 years ago and does not allow it...

But the real reason is an accident of game development. Kind of like how terminators can ride in Chimeras (because of termi-armored Inquisitors) but can't ride in Rhinos (because GW has a new Land Raider kit to sell).

I believe it has a purpose - tactical/assault/whatever marines are already carrying a vast burden, and wouldn't risk moving slower to do more damage.

I don't think any kind of fluff justification applies.

Do you have any idea how heavy the ammo for a heavy bolter would be?

Monster Rain wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Black Antelope wrote:
Whats next Solon? Do you want to give SM Plasma Rifles just because Tau have them? Or how about Incinerators?

But yeah. Your posts are kinda ridiculous sometimes, Solon. Do you want Marines to have Sternguard Veteran Squads as Troops--simply because Imperial Guard have Hardened Veterans as Troops?

Those are a bit of a jump from asking why Tactical Marines can't take Heavy Flamers, wouldn't you say?

Not really. As has been said:

Different codexes are different.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Monster Rain wrote:I don't think any kind of fluff justification applies.

Do you have any idea how heavy the ammo for a heavy bolter would be?

Which is partly why Imperial Guard Heavy Bolters are deployed in "teams". One man hauls the ammo and tripod, the other hauls the gun itself.

The difference is that a Space Marine wearing augmenting power armor and with the same amount of ammunition can carry it solo precisely because of the enhanced augmentations of the power armor and the alterations brought about by the Astartes conversion process itself.

Sisters of Battle can take heavy flamers too. Most likely Space Marines don't carry heavy flamers because Guilliman didn't think it was a good idea.

Kanluwen wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Black Antelope wrote:
Whats next Solon? Do you want to give SM Plasma Rifles just because Tau have them? Or how about Incinerators?

But yeah. Your posts are kinda ridiculous sometimes, Solon. Do you want Marines to have Sternguard Veteran Squads as Troops--simply because Imperial Guard have Hardened Veterans as Troops?

Those are a bit of a jump from asking why Tactical Marines can't take Heavy Flamers, wouldn't you say?

Not really. As has been said:

Different codexes are different.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Monster Rain wrote:I don't think any kind of fluff justification applies.

Do you have any idea how heavy the ammo for a heavy bolter would be?

Which is partly why Imperial Guard Heavy Bolters are deployed in "teams". One man hauls the ammo and tripod, the other hauls the gun itself.

The difference is that a Space Marine wearing augmenting power armor and with the same amount of ammunition can carry it solo precisely because of the enhanced augmentations of the power armor and the alterations brought about by the Astartes conversion process itself.

Different codices being different is a rather pointless statement. The context of Solon's question is clearly only referring to Imperial Armies.

And why would the power armor allow a Space Marine to carry Heavy Bolter ammo and not a large amount of Promethium?

Because Guilleman says so?

Seriously. The Imperial Guard are an ever-adapting entity, which alters their tactics and fighting style as needed.

The vast majority of Codex Astartes Marines would equate giving their Tactical units Heavy Flamers with the sort of incident that leads to full-scale Heresy.

Kanluwen wrote:Because Guilleman says so?

Seriously. The Imperial Guard are an ever-adapting entity, which alters their tactics and fighting style as needed.

The vast majority of Codex Astartes Marines would equate giving their Tactical units Heavy Flamers with the sort of incident that leads to full-scale Heresy.

Really dumb point to make, if all the codex chapters were afraid of Rowboat we would have different marks of landraiders or vindicator varients. I also have no idea what you mean by IG alter their tactics and fighting style, its not like they don't have STRICTER rules on how to command your troops. Oh and space marines don't ever think according you, IG soldiers were trained to listen and follow orders, space marines were trained to fight and kill.

Regardless regular space marines with heavy flamers would be a little much don't you think, i mean don't we have enough already, at a certain point we've all got a take a step back from our desire to win and all the fluff and realize that this is a game about little plastic soldiers which needs to be "balanced" in some way so everyone doesn't play the same army...

Because if Space Marine Tactical Squads could take HF they would be broken. Can you imagine how disgusting tactical squads with HF, Meltaguns and Combi-Meltas would be, especially if Vulkan was in the army?

Joetaco wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Because Guilleman says so?

Seriously. The Imperial Guard are an ever-adapting entity, which alters their tactics and fighting style as needed.

The vast majority of Codex Astartes Marines would equate giving their Tactical units Heavy Flamers with the sort of incident that leads to full-scale Heresy.

Really dumb point to make, if all the codex chapters were afraid of Rowboat we would have different marks of landraiders or vindicator varients. I also have no idea what you mean by IG alter their tactics and fighting style, its not like they don't have STRICTER rules on how to command your troops. Oh and space marines don't ever think according you, IG soldiers were trained to listen and follow orders, space marines were trained to fight and kill.

Regardless regular space marines with heavy flamers would be a little much don't you think, i mean don't we have enough already, at a certain point we've all got a take a step back from our desire to win and all the fluff and realize that this is a game about little plastic soldiers which needs to be "balanced" in some way so everyone doesn't play the same army...

First:
Spacing. Learn to use it. And complete thoughts. You're not talking out loud here. Take your time and type out complete thoughts.
Second:
Guard in fact do alter their tactics and fighting styles. It has nothing to do with their commanders. It has to do with the y'know...actual way they prosecute campaigns. You see examples of Guard altering their tactics quite a bit(moving from the standard tactics of just waiting for Tyranids/Orks to come to them to actively hunting and purging the forerunners of each species' invasion being a big one from the fluff perspective).
Third:
The OP of this thread is sorta well-known for coming up with ridiculously overpowered/silly ideas that benefit Space Marines incredibly in the Proposed Rules forum. Hence--this thread is another extension of that same general perspective.

Kanluwen wrote:
First:
Spacing. Learn to use it. And complete thoughts. You're not talking out loud here.

Sweet, sweet irony.

Anyway, I think the OP's question has been answered.

Game balance, pure and simple. There's no justification needed other than that.

I think Chaos Space Marines should get Psycannons. Cause invulnerable saves are STUPID.

(In case you missed my sarcasm, I be jokin' )

Why can't Tau Crisis Suits take heavy flamers?

As said before, Sternguard and Legion of the damned get heavy flamers. And Termies, dont forget them.
If the OP likes the smell of promethium soo much, there it is.

We could go back to the time of 'catachan-only' heavy flamers for IG infantry.
Or to GW's cheap retreat with codex armageddon and the Salamanders, where 'obviously', the heavy flamer was never written or intended as an infantry-option ( but still a predator sponson option ).

Killkrazy wrote:Why can't Tau Crisis Suits take heavy flamers?

Because its "burn the heretic" and Tau don't know the concept of heresy.

They can take ordinary flamers though.

That's for lighting the grill at the Greater Good Barbecues that they like to have.

Captain Solon wrote:
why can a single imperial guardsman carry a heavy flamer, but not an 8' Space marine

Simple for two reasons

(1) Imperial Guardsmen are not Space Marines
(2) Even Space marine codex's are different from each other. Blood Angels have Death Company, Black Templar have an ability to field 20man squads of Initiates and Neoyptes. If they could all take the exact same things as each other then there wouldn't be any call for different codex's or different styles of play.

As others have said, its like saying "why can't Tau take Marine Weapons". Hope that helps

I think this horse has had sufficient beating...