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I have not played this list yet but would like to fix any gaping holes before I do, any help is appreciated.


1500 Pts - Space Marines Roster

HQ: Space Marine Librarian
1 Space Marine Librarian (...in Terminator Armour; Epistolary; The Gate of Infinity; Vortex of Doom)
1 ...in Terminator Armour (Psychic Hood; Force Weapon; Storm Shield)

Troops: Tactical Squad
9 Tactical Squad (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x7; Flamer; Missile Launcher; Razorback)
1 Sergeant (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Melta Bombs; Bolt Pistol; Bolter)
1 Razorback (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Twin Linked Lascannon)

Troops: Tactical Squad )
9 Tactical Squad (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x7; Flamer; Missile Launcher; Razorback)
1 Sergeant (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Melta Bombs; Bolt Pistol; Bolter)
1 Razorback (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Twin Linked Lascannon)

Elite: Sternguard Veteran Squad
5 Sternguard Veteran Squad (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Special Issue Ammunition; Bolt Pistol x5; Bolter x5; Drop Pod)
1 Sergeant (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Special Issue Ammunition; Combi-Meltagun; Lightning Claw)
1 Drop Pod (Locator Beacon; Storm Bolter)

Elite: Terminator Squad
4 Terminator Squad (Power Fist x4; Storm Bolter x4; Cyclone Missile Launcher)
1 Sergeant (Power Sword; Storm Bolter)

Heavy Support: Whirlwind
1 Whirlwind (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Whirlwind Multiple Missile Launcher)

Heavy Support: Thunderfire Cannon
1 Thunderfire Cannon (Thunderfire Cannon)
1 Techmarine Gunner (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Artificer Armour; Servo Harness; Bolt Pistol; Thunderfire Cannon)
1 Servo Harness

Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron
1 Land Speeder Squadron (Heavy Flamer x1; Typhoon Missile Launcher x1)

Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron
1 Land Speeder Squadron (Heavy Flamer x1; Typhoon Missile Launcher x1)

you are lacking anti tank. Think about putting multi-meltas on your speeders over the missile launchers.

The whirlwind is good for taking out light troops, but for the cost, you could get the same effectiveness out of a predator with heavy bolter sponsons, and the predator can deal with heavy infantry and light vehicles.

Do not run a single drop pod, if you plan on using drop pods, run an entire drop pod list, single drop pod means you are giving your opponent 2 easy kill points, the drop pod and the squad in it, when you will only get one kp out of the unit.

Terminators need a land raider, it looks like you plan on teleporting them in, but that leaves them in the open to take a turn of shooting before they can charge, and most armies can easily take out a squad of normal terminators with one turn of shooting. By giving them a land raider you will give them a 20" charge range.

If you are running ten man tactical squads, give them a rhino instead of a razorback, and take the free multi-melta instead of the free missile launcher, it is better anti-tank and it is also free. If you want to run the razorbacks, i would suggest running 3 or 4, 5 man tactical squads and give them each a razorback.

If you decide to take a land raider for your terminators, replace your librarians gate or infinity with null zone, it will help you get through invuln saves that you are going to run into.

I see no reason to run sternguard, you can get more for the same cost, you could get either more tactical marines, or use the points toward a land raider or predators.

Finally, if you plan on running terminators, i would suggest running thunderhammer/storm shield assault terminators, the are more survivable than the terminators that you are running and can stand up to a round of shooting if you do decided to teleport them in.

Personally I would start by running the Librarian naked and putting him with a Tac Combat Squad with the heavy weapon. GOI'ing a scoring unit is more powerful than re-deploying your walking Tac Terminators and as the Combat Squad are likely to be without the PF Sgt or tansport he will give them a little CC punch and mobility.

With the points saved there, I would also drop the Whirlwind and either buy another Thunderfire Cannon or another Typhoon Speeder. On the speeders don't bother replacing the Heavy Bolters with Heavy Flamers as you want to keep them as far back as possible and out of range of massed S4/5 weapons fire. Make your opponent have to use his long ranged Anti-Tank weapons to take out your AV10 speeders.

Finally I would suggest that in a 1500pt army with your balanced/gunline build I would either have the Sternguard as a back-line support unit and drop the Drop Pod or lose the unit entirely and use the points to buy more Terminators. Tactical Termiators do NOT need a Land Raider and 10 of them walking up a flank with two Cyclone Missile Launchers is a fearsome moble fire base that would fit nicely with the rest of your list.

I think scrotis suggestions are not very good as they will potentially make the list completly something else and not fill the gaps.

I agree to run libby naked. I would make one of his abilities the machine curse to have some additional antitank.

Tac sarges need atleast combimeltas and maybe power fists but in 5 man squads (as you will preferably combatsquad) they might not be as useful as the squad will be killed anyway if your opponent wants ït to die.

For sternguard: everyone needs a combiweapon. I would suggest 3 combimeltas and 2 combiflamers in the squad.

Termies seem to be a bit toothless now that everyone has loads of AP2 or AP1 weapons around but when dropping near sternguards pod to support them they can actually do something. I think they work better as fire support squad that strides forward on foot and shoot.

Heavy support is weakest part of your list as it seems you have a bit of this and that so your enemy can just pick what hurts him most and kill it. I think you should go either 2x TFC or 2x whirlwind. Or none of it and take 3rd speeder and keep TFC. I would take MM and HF combo for all speeders instead or rockets.

Replace the Whirlwind and Thunderfire with 2-3 AC/HB Predators. Moar dakka!

Also, you accidentally put in fail Terminators, the correct ones are the entry called 'Assault Terminators'. Let's play around with this list a little:

Librarian w/ Term & SS 140

5 TH/SS Terminators 200
Land Raider Crusader w/ MM 260

Tac Squad (flamer, MM, Rhino) 205

Tac Squad (flamer, MM, Rhino) 205

2x Landspeeder Typhoon 180

3x AC/HB Predator 255

Total 1445

Toss 5 HK Missiles in there somewhere to make the total. The only things I don't like about this is lack of melta and only one Landraider, but this can be made up by the nice support you get in heavy and fast attack.

A storm shield on the librarian is a nice addition. Also with those terminators causing invulnerable saves nullzone works very well.

Tact squads are ok. Never a fan of melta bombs though.

The sternguard, with the only pod will have no support and get taken out very easily.

Speeders are best with multi meltas and flamers for anti vehicle and infantry.

And I agree, that assault terminators are betters and also need a land raider.

I think he wanted to fix the list not to change it completely...

You talking to Fearspect I presume?

this list doens't need gaps filled it needs re-written, everyone above for the most part has good ideas

Yes mercer. Ideas are good but i dont see it as broken. If he wants to play a tourney and stand a chance then it must be rewritten.

I thought so, and I agree. Some minor changes are probably needed. Though Fear's suggestions are very good, and something I'd more than likely take onboard.

Holy crap, last time I checked I had one reply, I go on a gun shoot with some tracs for a few days and wham. I realy appreciate everyones suggestions. Fear, the only reason I am not running DAKKA preds is.................dont got em. I also looked at the list when i got back today and, yeah its crap, but I am not sure where to go with purchasing models and hate wasting money, as this is my first army and I thought maybe I would post my model list and see what people come up with as a direction, few caveats,

1 I love my TFC, it usualy dies but it kills things by the fist full when it lives.
2 I do not have a preferred style yet ( fast, mech, cc ) I dont know enough to decide what I like, 3 months 20-30 games.

So here goes, my model count.

1 lrc, 1 pod, 2 dreads, 1 TFC, 2 speeders, 4 rhino hulls ( 2 can be rb and 1 whirl), 4 bikes, 31 tacticals, 1 5 man ass squad, 1 5 man scout squad, 7 ml tacs, 7 las tacs, 5 hb tacs, 2 mm tacs, 3 fl tacs, 3 mg tacs, 6 sg, 5 th/ss termies, 5 lc termies, 5 shooty termies, 1 chappy, 1 libby in termie armor, and 1 naked libby.

Thats it, to date, all painted and ready to play. However I dont really know where to go with it so advice and or ideas are definitely welcome as the 15th is coming and I am out of things to paint!

Okay, looking through your holdings, you have everything other than the predators.

Another option is to throw your two Dreads in. A really cool conversion is to take that Planetstrike anti-air gun (I forget it's name, comes with lots of armoured fences) and hack it apart to give your dreadnoughts two TL autocannons. A nice stand-in for the predators. The cool thing about dreadnoughts is that they can stand right behind a rhino and get full cover while being able to shoot over.

I used the same piece to make my Hydras (along with a chimera hull) for my IG.

The guns can be found in the Aegis Defence Line and does indeed make a decent TL auto cannon.

Ok 2 dreads w/ 2 tl autocannons hiding behind rhinos is just a damn cool idea and keeps me from having to buy/paint preds right now. Do you think, if I want to go for a more shooty feel, I should include the ass termies in raider varient as a just in case or should I just run 10 shooties w/ cyclones instead?

TH/SS Terminators only. Ever. Gosh, that is a nice list you'll be ending up with!

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh..... I just drove out to the flgs to buy the defense line, not 5 minutes before I got their someone called, had it pulled and reserved.


Continuously bangs face on wall.........................................


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok hows this look?


HQ: Space Marine Librarian
1 Space Marine Librarian (...in Terminator Armour; Null Zone; The Avenger)
1 ...in Terminator Armour (Psychic Hood; Force Weapon; Storm Shield)

Elite: Terminator Assault Squad (
4 Terminator Assault Squad s (Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield x4; Land Raider Redeemer)
1 Sergeant (Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield x1)
1 Land Raider Redeemer (Frag Assault Launchers; Power of the Machine Spirit; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Multi-Melta; Flamestorm Cannons x2; Twin Linked Assault Cannon)

Elite: Dreadnought
1 Dreadnought pts (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Twin Linked Autocannon; Missile Launcher)

Elite: Dreadnought
1 Dreadnought (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Twin Linked Autocannon; Missile Launcher)

Heavy Support: Thunderfire Cannon (1#, 100 pts)
1 Thunderfire Cannon @ 100 pts (Thunderfire Cannon)
1 Techmarine Gunner (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Artificer Armour; Servo Harness; Bolt Pistol; Thunderfire Cannon)
1 Servo Harness

Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron
1 Land Speeder Squadron s (Multi-Melta x1; Heavy Flamer x1)

Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron
1 Land Speeder Squadron (Multi-Melta x1; Heavy Flamer x1)

Troops: Tactical Squad
9 Tactical Squad (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x7; Meltagun; Multi-Melta; Rhino)
1 Sergeant (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Bolt Pistol; Bolter)
1 Rhino (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter)

Troops: Tactical Squad
9 Tactical Squad (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x7; Meltagun; Multi-Melta; Rhino)
1 Sergeant (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Bolt Pistol; Bolter)
1 Rhino (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter)