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Hello All!

I am thinking about returning to 40K after a long absence (I last played 3rd ed.). If I decide to really commit to it, I am considering building a new IG army. I'm going to go get some games in before I make a decision, but I thought I'd post my list here for feedback. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Note that I intend to run the infantry as combined squads. I know that a few choices aren't optimal, such as the Standard (which is too cool not to put in the army) and the Master of Ordnance, who I would consider getting rid of, but he's very fluffy for Kreig.

Death Korps of Krieg, 1850 pts.

HQ: Company Command Squad 255 pts
Carapace Armour; Medi-pack; Regimental Standard; Plasmagun; Colonel Konrad Sternz ('Iron Hand' Straken); Bodyguard; Master of Ordnance

Infantry Platoon 390 pts
Platoon Command Squad (Meltagun x2; Plasmagun x2)
Chimera (Multi-Laser; Heavy Flamer; Pintle Heavy Stubber)
Infantry Squad (Flamer)
Heavy Weapons Team (Autocannon)
Commissar (Power Weapon)
Infantry Squad (Grenade Launcher)
Heavy Weapons Team (Autocannon)
Infantry Squad (Grenade Launcher)
Heavy Weapons Team (Autocannon)
Sergeant (Melta Bombs)

Infantry Platoon 390 pts
Platoon Command Squad (Meltagun x2; Plasmagun x2)
Chimera (Multi-Laser; Heavy Flamer; Pintle Heavy Stubber)
Infantry Squad (Flamer)
Heavy Weapons Team (Autocannon)
Commissar (Power Weapon)
Infantry Squad (Grenade Launcher)
Heavy Weapons Team (Autocannon)
Infantry Squad (Grenade Launcher)
Heavy Weapons Team (Autocannon)
Sergeant (Melta Bombs)

Veteran Squad 185 pts
(Meltagun x1; Plasmagun x2)
Chimera (Multi-Laser; Heavy Flamer; Pintle Heavy Stubber)

Fast Attack: Rough Rider Squad 60 pts
4 Rough Riders
1 Rough Rider Sergeant (Melta Bombs)

Fast Attack: Rough Rider Squad 60 pts
4 Rough Riders
1 Rough Rider Sergeant (Melta Bombs)

Leman Russ Demolisher 215 pts
(Plasma Cannon Sponsons; Pintle Heavy Stubber)

Leman Russ Demolisher 215 pts
(Plasma Cannon Sponsons; Pintle Heavy Stubber)

Griffon 75 points

That Looks like a pretty solid list. Are all these death korp If so daaaammmmnnnn thats a lot of metal and a hell lot of money evn just for the rough riders.

But yes just remember the rough riders are very very fragile.

And plasma cannon sponsons are not very good for a demolisher as because of its short range it normally wont get to fire them how about finding points for an exterminator by taking the sponsons of the other one and getting rid of one squad of riders?

Problem with the CCS Straken is best in assault, though with a plasma you cannot assault. So I would either take meltas or flamers so you can assault after, or drop straken and take more plasmas though still with a medi kit. Another problem it's on foot and it will not reach combat without being shot to pieces.

Meltaguns and plasma guns on the PCS are kinda mixed roles. Meltas wreck vehicles, plasmas light vehicles.

Never played with rough riders but heard they're not so good. I have had a little more respect for outflanking autocannon sentinels.

I was intending to use Straken as more of a counter attack unit, once the enemy gets stuck in with the 30 man IG squads, and mostly stand behind one of the Russes for protection. Thus, I mainly intended to use the plasmas in the command squad against light vehicles while holding position or slowly advancing with the line. I suppose I might also consider dropping the plasma in favor of flamers. I may switch over the PCS squads to purely meltas though, as they have the mobility in their chimeras to get into range.

As far as the roughriders go, I have used them with some success as counter attack units. This has worked pretty well for me as long as they can be kept hidden until they want to emerge for the charge. Two units may be excessive though. I definitely want to field at least one as the Krieg cavalry (though hideously expensive) is really cool!

I am not fond of the Exterminator, but if people agree that the plasma sponsons aren't the way to go (and I was feeling that they might make the Demolishers too expensive) I need to find a use for those points. Dropping the sponsons and a unit of roughriders would get me 140 points. I could then drop the Griffon and buy another Russ. However, comp for tournaments here may ding me for too much armor. I could also leave the griffon in and take something fast, like a Banewolf (the chemical warfare theme fitting in nicely with Kreig). I could also consider an elite like stormtroopers, which I don't generally like, but which might be useful for their deep striking capability.

Any suggestions?

I also think it's a solid list. I wouldn't mix weapons like plasma/meltas. Make them all the same and therefore dedicate the squad. The CCS seems a little bloated, too many upgrades I think.

I run my LRD with PC sponsons, and find them useful as it doubles the tanks range, and allows good use of Lumbering Bohemeth. It is a fire magnet, but you've got two, so take that, enemies of the imperium!

One of the main reasons I was considering the sponsons as they prevent the tank from turning into a 165 point paper weight after a single weapon destroyed result...

What would you clip from the CCS?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK.... how about the following:

Death Korps of Krieg, 1850 pts.

HQ: Company Command Squad 225 pts
Carapace Armour; Medi-pack; Regimental Standard; Colonel Konrad Sternz ('Iron Hand' Straken); Bodyguard

Infantry Platoon 380 pts
Platoon Command Squad (Meltagun x4)
Chimera (Multi-Laser; Heavy Flamer; Pintle Heavy Stubber)
Infantry Squad (Flamer)
Heavy Weapons Team (Autocannon)
Commissar (Power Weapon)
Infantry Squad (Grenade Launcher)
Heavy Weapons Team (Autocannon)
Infantry Squad (Grenade Launcher)
Heavy Weapons Team (Autocannon)
Sergeant (Melta Bombs)

Infantry Platoon 380 pts
Platoon Command Squad (Meltagun x4)
Chimera (Multi-Laser; Heavy Flamer; Pintle Heavy Stubber)
Infantry Squad (Flamer)
Heavy Weapons Team (Autocannon)
Commissar (Power Weapon)
Infantry Squad (Grenade Launcher)
Heavy Weapons Team (Autocannon)
Infantry Squad (Grenade Launcher)
Heavy Weapons Team (Autocannon)
Sergeant (Melta Bombs)

Veteran Squad 180 pts
( Plasmagun x3)
Chimera (Multi-Laser; Heavy Flamer; Pintle Heavy Stubber)

Veteran Squad 180 pts
( Plasmagun x3)
Chimera (Multi-Laser; Heavy Flamer; Pintle Heavy Stubber)

Fast Attack: Rough Rider Squad 70 pts
5 Rough Riders
1 Rough Rider Sergeant (Melta Bombs)

Leman Russ Demolisher 215 pts
(Plasma Cannon Sponsons; Pintle Heavy Stubber)

Leman Russ Demolisher 215 pts
(Plasma Cannon Sponsons; Pintle Heavy Stubber)

Drop one of the platoons, use the points to give the sarges on the other platoon PW, this will give you a better chance a winning CC after you get assaulted, drop the meltabombs on the platoon sarges (I doubt that you'll be assaulting any vehicles with them), buy some HWT with LC and maybe a Medusa (I would recomend a Manticore, but a Medusa fits better in the Death Corps theme I think).

Drop the carapace armour and bodyguard on the CCS and give them 2 Plasma.

I like having a meltabomb in the platoons in case of tank shock. It is a cheap deterrent to people who try to herd you into a tight group for template weapons.

As far as separate HWT teams go, don't you find them too fragile?

I think I kind of like the two platoon structure, I might remove one of the vet groups. I think four Chimeras may be a little much for a Krieg based list. If I do that, I could run another vanilla russ (or a third demolisher), remove the sponsons from the Demolishers, add back the Master of Ordnance (which I like for fluff reasons, even if he'll never hit anything) and a bunch of power weapons.

I agree with PhantomViper that the Medusa is more Krieg-like than the Manticore, but doesn't it blow up too easily, being a prime target and open topped?

If your oponent is smart he will tank shock the rest of the squad / platoon and avoid the sergeants, so I still advise to drop the MB.

The lascannons HWT are very fragile, yes, but your army desperatly needs some long range firepower and they (and the Medusa), are your best bets without breaking your theme.

I wouldn't recomend droping the sponsons on the Demolishers, they turn a short ranged assault tank, that can be ignored for a turn or two, into a complete monster that needs to be dealt with ASAP.

If you are concerned about the Medusas survivability, then maybe give it a Cammo netting and put it into cover? I never used one, since I prefer the Manticore so I can't help you very much in that case.

If you like the 2 platoon structure then keep it and drop a vet squad to get the points you need.

I like your revised list. I definitely don't think it needs a major rewrite. The CCS still shows the same cost as the first one though... I like how it is now, non-threatening at range with survival upgrades. I think you could get away with dropping the carapace though - you'll most likely be able to find some cover. Then you could put your fluffy MoO back in.

I would keep the vets in there, but that's just me. Another tank would of course be useful as well. Think 'scoring unit'.

PhantomViper wrote:If your oponent is smart he will tank shock the rest of the squad / platoon and avoid the sergeants, so I still advise to drop the MB.

Anyone in the squad can Death or Glory; not just those "under" the tank.

I second dropping the sponsons on the Demolishers, actually just on 1 and upgrade the other to an executioner with Plasma sponsons.

Gives you back 5 points; enough for a flamer in you CCS.

AaronG wrote:I was intending to use Straken as more of a counter attack unit, once the enemy gets stuck in with the 30 man IG squads, and mostly stand behind one of the Russes for protection. Thus, I mainly intended to use the plasmas in the command squad against light vehicles while holding position or slowly advancing with the line. I suppose I might also consider dropping the plasma in favor of flamers. I may switch over the PCS squads to purely meltas though, as they have the mobility in their chimeras to get into range.

Straken might be good in combat, his command squad is not. Also that extra toughness is also wasted because of majority toughness rule. His rules as well only affect the command squad, which cannot attach to a 30 man I.G unit as it's a unit itself. Also a single russ will not hide 30 guard.

Kommissar Kel wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:If your oponent is smart he will tank shock the rest of the squad / platoon and avoid the sergeants, so I still advise to drop the MB.

Anyone in the squad can Death or Glory; not just those "under" the tank.

Wrong, only models in the vehicle path may attempt a death or glory attack. Pg 69 on the BRB. Please don't quote rules that you don't know or are unsure of since it may induce other players in error.

Didn't double check my rulebook; went by something that my opponent did in the last game(he still failed and died so no loss) he seemed sure of himself so I didn't bother double checking.

Personally I would get rid of all the Heavy Stubbers you can use those points to give PW to you sergeants in your platoon squads. If you were to get rid of one of the vet squads I would go for a Hydra. You don't need to buy the model there are plenty of great looking conversions out there. But at least to me it becomes a huge asset that if not dealt with quickly can chew apart the enemies transports. Also If you could fit it I would also recommend getting rid of the plasma cannon sponsons so you could field another squad of rough riders. They can play a pivotal role due to there speed and strength. Good luck on your list

mercer wrote:
Straken might be good in combat, his command squad is not. Also that extra toughness is also wasted because of majority toughness rule. His rules as well only affect the command squad, which cannot attach to a 30 man I.G unit as it's a unit itself. Also a single russ will not hide 30 guard.

Although only Straken's squad is made fearless, every friendly unit within 12" gets the counter-attack and furious charge special rule. Keeping the rest of the army in line is what the commissars are for.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PhantomViper wrote:

Kommissar Kel wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:If your oponent is smart he will tank shock the rest of the squad / platoon and avoid the sergeants, so I still advise to drop the MB.

Anyone in the squad can Death or Glory; not just those "under" the tank.

Wrong, only models in the vehicle path may attempt a death or glory attack. Pg 69 on the BRB. Please don't quote rules that you don't know or are unsure of since it may induce other players in error.

OK, I didn't notice that either. I guess I should remove the meltabombs.... or add more.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK.... once more, with feeling....

This version adds a Medusa, restores a RR unit, MoO, and adds some additional power weapons to the platoons.

HQ: Company Command Squad 240 pts
Carapace Armour; Medi-pack; Regimental Standard; Colonel Konrad Sternz ('Iron Hand' Straken); Master of Ordnance

Infantry Platoon 395 pts
Platoon Command Squad (Meltagun x4)
Chimera (Multi-Laser; Heavy Flamer; Pintle Heavy Stubber)
Infantry Squad (Flamer)
Heavy Weapons Team (Autocannon)
Commissar (Power Weapon)
Infantry Squad (Grenade Launcher)
Heavy Weapons Team (Autocannon)
Sergeant (Power Weapon)
Infantry Squad (Grenade Launcher)
Heavy Weapons Team (Autocannon)
Sergeant (Power Weapon)

Infantry Platoon 395 pts
Platoon Command Squad (Meltagun x4)
Chimera (Multi-Laser; Heavy Flamer; Pintle Heavy Stubber)
Infantry Squad (Flamer)
Heavy Weapons Team (Autocannon)
Commissar (Power Weapon)
Infantry Squad (Grenade Launcher)
Heavy Weapons Team (Autocannon)
Sergeant (Power Weapon)
Infantry Squad (Grenade Launcher)
Heavy Weapons Team (Autocannon)
Sergeant (Power Weapon)

Veteran Squad 180 pts
( Plasmagun x3)
Chimera (Multi-Laser; Heavy Flamer; Pintle Heavy Stubber)

Fast Attack: Rough Rider Squad 60 pts
4 Rough Riders
1 Rough Rider Sergeant (Melta Bombs)

Fast Attack: Rough Rider Squad 60 pts
4 Rough Riders
1 Rough Rider Sergeant (Melta Bombs)

Leman Russ Demolisher 175 pts
(Heavy Bolter; Pintle Heavy Stubber)

Leman Russ Demolisher 175 pts
(Heavy Bolter; Pintle Heavy Stubber)

Medusa 170 pts.
(Camo Netting; Bastion Breacher Shells)

Still looking good. The only change I would make would be to drop one or two heavy stubbers for an AC or LC in the vet squad, and change out the HF for a HB in their chim's hull. That way it's a bit of a dakkawagon, able to get that firepower squad to a good spot, while throwing down 9 shots itself. BS4 PG/AC or PG/LC is pretty powerful. I think a LC would back up the medusa for long-range AT, which you are short on...

murdog wrote:Still looking good. The only change I would make would be to drop one or two heavy stubbers for an AC or LC in the vet squad, and change out the HF for a HB in their chim's hull. That way it's a bit of a dakkawagon, able to get that firepower squad to a good spot, while throwing down 9 shots itself. BS4 PG/AC or PG/LC is pretty powerful. I think a LC would back up the medusa for long-range AT, which you are short on...

I could still drop the carpace armor from the CCS as well for a few more points. Subbing out the HF for the HB in the Vet Chim is probably a good idea. Putting an LC or AC in there as well seems like a good idea... but I can't conceive of how they could be fired from inside a vehicle the way they are modeled! I have to decide if I can suspend my disbelief enough.... Maybe I could build a little firing platform on the rear engine decking. Making it a ranged firing platform might also allow it to double as cover for the Medusa, when necessary. I'm really dubious of how you hide vehicles under the 5th ed rules and without cover, I've wasted 30 points on cammo nets.

I think I may drop the carpace armor and one group of rough riders and put the sponsons back on the LRD's.

Ya I don't have my codex, but enclosed crew compartment seems like a better buy for increased survivability. I don't think carapace is necessary, even though you're on foot. You should usually be behind your troops, anyways (getting 4+ cover), and there's often some nice area cover to set up your command post at.

Suspend your disbelief, dude. It's a game of toy soldiers, after all. I'm able to put a HWT on the back of my chim, anyways. I just draw LoS from the hatch so that I'm not getting a cheat peek over the turret with it. They don't fire from inside, they get 'er mounted real quick on the hatch...

I think a nice area on the back with some sandbags for defense might be enough to satisfy my impulses regarding esthetics...

Roger that. I pretty much choose a good command post and deploy from there, when my CCS is on foot.

AaronG wrote:

mercer wrote:
Straken might be good in combat, his command squad is not. Also that extra toughness is also wasted because of majority toughness rule. His rules as well only affect the command squad, which cannot attach to a 30 man I.G unit as it's a unit itself. Also a single russ will not hide 30 guard.

Although only Straken's squad is made fearless, every friendly unit within 12" gets the counter-attack and furious charge special rule. Keeping the rest of the army in line is what the commissars are for.

I forgot he had counter-attack and furious charge to units within 12", however giving fearless so his commmand squad makes it suck even more. Guard will more than likely lose combat, but as you're fearless you won't fall back but have to take the amount of armour saves you've lost combat by - bad times!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Seems you fancy your guard in c.c have you thought of taking priests just so can re-roll to hit when charging?

It is not that I want my guard in close combat, it is simply that close combat is inevitable to some extent. There are too many fast moving things that can reach CC before being blasted to bits. With Straken in there, they should be able to repel the attacks of anything that survived getting into range.

As far as the fearless issue, it's not actually that bad. Straken himself is likely (with 4-5 strength 6 power attacks) to do 2-3 casualties, with the regimental standard that's one more for combat resolution plus whatever the rest of the unit does. Moreover, with carpace armor and feel no pain, the command squad has only a 1 in 6 chance of taking a wound from the first "overkill" (if you assign it to Straken) and a 1 in 4 after that.

It should be noted that if he weren't there and the command squad were to get into cc, they'd almost certainly break morale and be destroyed in the first round of combat.

Finally, Straken can single handedly kill a dreadnaught (using his command squad as a meat shield). And all this for only 90 points!

It is not that I want my guard in close combat, it is simply that close combat is inevitable to some extent. There are too many fast moving things that can reach CC before being blasted to bits. With Straken in there, the guard should be able to repel the attacks of anything that survived getting into range.

As far as the fearless issue, it's not actually that bad. Straken himself is likely (with 4-5 strength 6 power attacks) to do 2-3 casualties, with the regimental standard that's one more for combat resolution plus whatever the rest of the unit does. Moreover, with carpace armor and feel no pain, the command squad has only a 1 in 6 chance of taking a wound from the first "overkill" (if you assign it to Straken) and a 1 in 4 after that.

It should be noted that if he weren't there and the command squad were to get into cc, they'd almost certainly break morale and be destroyed in the first round of combat.

Finally, Straken can single handedly kill a dreadnaught (using his command squad as a meat shield). And all this for only 90 points!

Good points, Straken FTW!