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Does anyone enjoy having to pin metal models together? How about holding the heavy pieces together while your krazy glue and/or green stuff dries?

Why does GW make metal models anyway? It seems that everyone hates them, and they usually come with fewer options and less freedom to convert or create different poses. Plus, GW has to pay more for the tin than plastic. It seems like they suck for everyone, even GW. So then why does GW keep making them?

Metal is cheaper to produce in small quantities than plastic, so they will likely stick with metal for the individual character models. But most people do prefer plastic and it is much easier to work with and convert, I grant you.

I agree. In general, I'd take plastic over metal any day. Although I must admit, there is little more satisfying than feeling the heft of a metal model in your hand.

I actually love metal miniatures.

They tend to hold sculpting detail far better than plastic models. Additionally, I like the weight of the miniature as I'm painting it (I tend to feel like I'm going to break plastic minis).

A lot of it stems from what the interest is for the person painting the mini. I'm purely an artist, but I could understand for gamers that have to assemble and paint massive armies, metal could be a pain. For me though, painting one to 5 minis at a time, I don't mind the pinning, gap filling, etc.

Hope that helps shed some light on the subject.

Skarboy was spot on. If they only plan on selling a small number of them, then metal is cheaper. The actual reason is that the kind of moulds used for metal models cost quite a bit less. They know we prefer plastic so for popular models it is worth it as the percentage decrease in profits would be much smaller.

As GW models start to have more options they will make more plastic models. If one kit can become 3 types of unit they are almost certainly going to make it plastic.

Plastic models are also made differently. Metal models are made from hand made sculpts whereas plastic one are often designed on computers with 3d designers. As the equipment to cut models with machinery becomes cheaper and better more plastic models will become available.

AGProductions wrote:They tend to hold sculpting detail far better than plastic models.

This is a myth that is easily dispelled simply by picking up the latest edition of Space Hulk.

But you can not do under cuts in plastic as seen in space hulk.

Metal is great for manufacturing models in relatively small numbers. The vast majority of wargame figures are metal.

Even GW still make metal for the units which are only bought in small numbers -- HQs, Special Characters and unusual units like the Venomthrope.

That will not change unless GW start to make HQ special sets containing several special characters on one sprue frame.

Breotan wrote:

AGProductions wrote:They tend to hold sculpting detail far better than plastic models.

This is a myth that is easily dispelled simply by picking up the latest edition of Space Hulk.

Actually, pick up any of the old confrontation metals and you will see a large difference in amount of detail. The most recent Space hulk just happens to be one of the better plastics. But when some genestealers are missing entire arms because of the undercutting issue it kinda stinks.

I agree with AGProductions, metal models hold more detail than plastic and are IMO funner to paint.

If metal models were made like plastic models (all the parts being separate) i wouldn't mind them because i can at least pose them the way i want, but since i can't i hate them to death. My personal preference of materials in order from least to greatest is metal, resin, plastic. I'm sure many would agree. Also i hate large scale metal models like the old dreadnoughts *shiver*.

Hehe Ghoma, I've just picked up 2 of them! Mind you, I had to put them down fairly soon, they're bloody heavy!

Pretty sure one of em weighs more than all my other metal models, and I've got a DH army...

Sorta.... it's not finished yet :p

On topic: Yes. I hate metal. Plastic is a luxury!

I don't really get the metal hate. I think that the heftiness of them is kinda cool once you've got them all assembled and such. And really, they're not that big of a pain to put together; anything worth doing is worth taking more than 10 minutes to do, right?

Menelker wrote:Actually, pick up any of the old confrontation metals and you will see a large difference in amount of detail.

That's your argument for detail? Old out of print plastic models? If you want to go old school, I can dig up plenty of pics of craptastic metals. We may disagree but I think the plastics GW has put out hold their own against metals just fine.

Some people care about "heft" and others don't. For me, plugging a nickle in the base works fine and pushes the center of gravity so low that my minis rarely fall over on slopes.

Plastic molds gets around the "undercut" issue by separating parts onto a sprue in a kit format. The very nature of the plastic production process makes it a lot less likely to get a warped or mishapen figure, of which I have several in metal. Plastic also lends itself more to conversion/kit bashing than metal simply because of the ease of working with plastic.

Plastic moulds do not have the same capacity for detail as metal ones.
The detail is a lot softer, especially on the edges of bits due to not being able to undercut.

I prefer working with plastic models, though. The detail on most kits is better than what's necessary for troops.
I'm glad they still make metal models for characters, though.

@Breotan: Actually the whole Confrontation line was metal before they got bought out and tanked the company.

Love the heft of metal. Hate the difficulty of conversion. When a sword or other fiddly bit (swords mostly) breaks on a metal model, it's more difficult to repair IMHO. It feels easier to repair on a plastic model.

MenelkerActually wrote: the whole Confrontation line was metal before they got bought out and tanked the company.

I miss those wonderful metal minis. Rackham revolutionized the entire miniature world with beautiful minis and incredible artists...then decided to stick a gun in their mouths and destroy everything they had worked for.

@AG

That may be the most apt and beautiful analogy I have ever had the pleasure of reading on these Dakka boards.

AGProductions wrote:

MenelkerActually wrote: the whole Confrontation line was metal before they got bought out and tanked the company.

I miss those wonderful metal minis. Rackham revolutionized the entire miniature world with beautiful minis and incredible artists...then decided to stick a gun in their mouths and destroy everything they had worked for.

I agree. It makes me sad to think about it.

The metal is so malleable though. Makes it easy as to file and such, but it's yea it flexes too easily and it's tensile strength is laughable.

At one stage GW replaced their metal mini's with a tin like substance. Still a metal of sorts but much lighter. I got a bunch of them unpainted still in a box. The trend soon wore off.

I think the tin came in as they wanted something without lead, but Im not sure.

Yeah I t sucks but that's the way it is. i just wish that they'd be a little more sensible on a few things...$120 for a ten man squad of immortals, broadside hybrid kits with half a pound of metal supported by two legs of plastic less than an 1/8" in diameter.

OoieGoie wrote:At one stage GW replaced their metal mini's with a tin like substance. Still a metal of sorts but much lighter. I got a bunch of them unpainted still in a box. The trend soon wore off.

I think the tin came in as they wanted something without lead, but Im not sure.

They are still lead free now, the earliest lead-free ones in the mid-'90s were definately poorer than their current output though. I assume it was just a sign of them getting to grips with the new materials and the required metal mixtures for efficient and good quality casting, I recall a fair bit of rough detail and miscasts, usually a sign of the metal not being hot enough before entering the mould or not cooled long enough before being removed, both are improved by altering the temperature (obviously) but also the metal mixture, such as adding bismuth to reduve melting point.

I still prefer metal miniatures because the detail is generally better, there are undercut issues with plastic models although the new moulds are getting better all the time. It still means that a really good plastic kit has to come in a lot of small parts and detail is rarely as fine as can be achieved in metal. Well GW plastic that is, look at most plastic kit manufacturers and you will see much finer detail being achieved (try panel lines and cockpit detail on most aircraft kits), so I guess in part it is a case of equipment invested in and stylistic choices when it comes to sculpting that determines the "look" of GW plastics as opposed to their metals.

Metal will always be there though because it is much cheaper than plastic to produce, plastic stuff only becomes financially viable when you're expecting to shift large numbers and special characters don't cut it.

On the other hand, all the best casting I have seen recently by other companies has been done through resin. The finish is smoother and the detail finer than anything normally achieved in metal or plastic. It's also fairly cheap I think which is why it's a common choice among small manufacturers.

I prefer metals, myself.

As for the ease of converting ...
It's called a dremel. With one of these, metal is easier than plastic to modify.

Metal models are good for chucking!

I definitely prefer plastics for modeling purposes; while some people complain about having a whole bunch of parts (Well, my one friend who doesn't even want to play Anima Tactics because he hates painting and modeling) I love having plastic kits that allow for greater conversion and posing purposes. Plus, plastic is much lighter, so it'll take a good drop for anything to snap off. Whereas with metal, I've seen a model tip over and have things dropping off of it.

But as has been pointed out, metal holds detail much better. As much as I love the modeling ability of my Space Wolves (Especially my Redneck Marine firing a bolt pistol and bolter into the air) I have to say that the metal Njal model is gorgeous, especially if you can manage to get that raven to stick to the perch. No easy task, I can tell you, but it does look awesome.

well i think you get more details. second if they fall off the table they are usually safer than plastic. and third if you really start to hate your opponent you can throw them at him or her?

1 word DREADSOCK!!!!!

Metal models are cheaper to produce in smaller quantities, and as we now GW can be very cheap