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I had a disagreement recently about shooting at a unit and then assaulting a different unit. My understanding of the way that the game works is that if you shoot at a unit you under no circumstance can assault a totally different unit. I'll outline the scenario that I was in.

1. Unit A shoots at my unit.
2. Unit A does not completely kill my unit.
3. Unit B then shoots at my unit and completely kills it.
4. Unit A then wants to assault a different unit.

My opponent claimed that since the unit that he shot at was destroyed he was no longer restricted in assault and he could assault whatever he wanted.

I'm 99% sure that is not correct. Can anyone point me to a page in the rule book that says this?

You are correct, opponent needs a rulebookslap.

BRB,Pg 33, last paragraph.

Yeah,

Rulebook slap. I fired my whole army at a friend's Nobs the last game I played and obliterated them. Then I kinda sat there.

There is *1* exception - when you destroy a transport vehicle the unit that destroyed the transport (and NO OTHER UNIT!) can assault any occupents.

Is there any reason that he would think that he could assault a different unit? a rule from a previous edition? and in the last paragraph on page 33 it says "how ever see the exception over the page for multiple targets" what does that mean?

Nope,since at least 3rd you have to assault the unit you shot at.

It means that you can assault multiple units, as long as the first target is the unit you shot at. If you cannot assault the unit you shot at as it is dead, tough.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Nope,since at least 3rd you have to assault the unit you shot at.

It means that you can assault multiple units, as long as the first target is the unit you shot at. If you cannot assault the unit you shot at as it is dead, tough.

As an extension, you can use this rule to your favor. {Here comes advice for the new guy OP}

If your opponent is shooting at a unit of yours that he obviously intends to assault, judicious casualty selection can leave your opponent's unit with nobody to assault, even if the target unit is not destroyed. Merely select the models within assault range as casualties where allowed....

THis has been a tactic for a long time, and a reason why short range assault weapons are not really used in my army - I have to be *very* confident that i wont ill enough to leave me out of assault range before my bezerkers open fire.

Saldiven wrote:If your opponent is shooting at a unit of yours that he obviously intends to assault, judicious casualty selection can leave your opponent's unit with nobody to assault, even if the target unit is not destroyed. Merely select the models within assault range as casualties where allowed....

This is an awesome trick that has made me think more than once before shooting a unit I want to assault

moltenchicken wrote:Is there any reason that he would think that he could assault a different unit? a rule from a previous edition? and in the last paragraph on page 33 it says "how ever see the exception over the page for multiple targets" what does that mean?

This second part was answered for you. The first one from previous editions I can't answer conclusively, but I broke out my 3rd edition rulebook to check for you since I couldn't remember. It's a moot point now that it's 2 editions removed except for pointing out he may have been confused rather than cheating. In the assault rules for 3rd edition, pre-Trial Assault Rule update as a primer for 4th edition combat, the page states that any unit within 6" of any enemy unit may make a 6" move to initiate combat. The only specific rule disallowing assault was firing rapid-fire or heavy weapons prior to said assault. If he's an old-schooler, he may have just lapsed. Obviously I haven't re-read the entire rulebook but I can't find anything there in 5-10 min of looking saying that back then you had to assault the shooting target. Back then you could also shoot out of close combat since there were often times (no defenders react rule) that you'd just have a couple dudes in close combat.

Saldiven wrote:If your opponent is shooting at a unit of yours that he obviously intends to assault, judicious casualty selection can leave your opponent's unit with nobody to assault, even if the target unit is not destroyed. Merely select the models within assault range as casualties where allowed....

I was employing this tactic already but thanks for the advise and the quick response.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Zain60 wrote:This second part was answered for you. The first one from previous editions I can't answer conclusively, but I broke out my 3rd edition rulebook to check for you since I couldn't remember. It's a moot point now that it's 2 editions removed except for pointing out he may have been confused rather than cheating. In the assault rules for 3rd edition, pre-Trial Assault Rule update as a primer for 4th edition combat, the page states that any unit within 6" of any enemy unit may make a 6" move to initiate combat. The only specific rule disallowing assault was firing rapid-fire or heavy weapons prior to said assault. If he's an old-schooler, he may have just lapsed. Obviously I haven't re-read the entire rulebook but I can't find anything there in 5-10 min of looking saying that back then you had to assault the shooting target. Back then you could also shoot out of and into close combat since there were often times (no defenders react rule) that you'd just have a couple dudes in close combat.

Thanks for taking a look at that. I am sure that he was not trying to cheat. I was just confusion on both our parts, like i said i was 99% sure that it was played this way but we had both forgot our rulebooks so we couldn't prove the other person wrong.

nosferatu1001 wrote:There is *1* exception - when you destroy a transport vehicle the unit that destroyed the transport (and NO OTHER UNIT!) can assault any occupents.

Or when a codex says you can

nosferatu1001 wrote:There is *1* exception - when you destroy a transport vehicle the unit that destroyed the transport (and NO OTHER UNIT!) can assault any occupents.

? Surely you mean that other units that didn't shoot at anything can also assault them?

ChrisCP wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:There is *1* exception - when you destroy a transport vehicle the unit that destroyed the transport (and NO OTHER UNIT!) can assault any occupents.

? Surely you mean that other units that didn't shoot at anything can also assault them?

Yes, they definitely can.

I was thinking the same thing.

If one unit explodes/wrecks a transport in the shooting phase, may another unit shoot the occupants of the transport once they've disembarked? Why or why not? Also, if both units are in range to the disembarked unit, and both fired at either the transport and/or occupants, can they then both assault the disembarked unit (assuming there are models remaining) ?

tetrisphreak wrote:If one unit explodes/wrecks a transport in the shooting phase, may another unit shoot the occupants of the transport once they've disembarked?

As long as the 2nd unit has not already fired, it is permitted to fire upon the now disembartked passengers and assault them if possible, because they will be assaulting the unit they shot at.

Also, if both units are in range to the disembarked unit, and both fired at either the transport and/or occupants, can they then both assault the disembarked unit (assuming there are models remaining) ?

It Depends. If Unit A Shoots the Transport, and fails to destroy it, and then Unit B shoots and destroys the transport, Unit A is now unable to assault anything, as the unit they shot at no longer exists, while Unit B may assault the now disembarked passengers, as they are permitted to by the rules. However, if Unit A shoots and Destroys the Transport, Unit B may Shoot at the Disembarked Passengers, and then Both may assault the passengers.

The moral of the story is: Fire the Heavy Weapons first

Thanks for the quick/concise answer. This is how i thought it worked but I played an imperial guard player who (admittedly) hadn't played 40k for quite some time (i'm thinking 2 rulesets) and was under the impression that since all shooting took place "simultaneously" the disembarked passengers weren't technically 'there' for my gaunts to shoot at/assault. i had to explain to him that units shot all together, but one at a time in terms of order, so that the vehicle had exploded in 'real time'. I didn't know how else to explain it but after a few minutes of hemming and hawing we got on with our game. it made me second-guess my rules knowledge...something i hate doing.

thanks again,

-tetris

ChrisCP wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:There is *1* exception - when you destroy a transport vehicle the unit that destroyed the transport (and NO OTHER UNIT!) can assault any occupents.

? Surely you mean that other units that didn't shoot at anything can also assault them?

I was meaning that *only* the unit that destroyed the transport, and no other unit that shot the transport, can assault the unit.

As some people seem to be unable to read "the unit" correctly

The fashion in which you constructed your sentence did not make that clear. There was no distinction over units that shot at the transport etc - in fact it uses parenthesis to specifically say 'no other unit', while still not mentioning 'shot at' as you have done in your next post

It's a GW style clarity error I knew what you were trying to say but it's easy to claim you're saying something other than intended.

THis was just from the recent thread on "can i assault a unit if i shot at but didnt destroy the transport" thread, where yet again people removed context - so I was just trying to forestall that queston from appearing again!

and of course, created more...

The horror! The horror!!!!!!
*Runs screaming into corner*

*shoots Chris, thereby ending his terror and making the world a less frightened place*

nosferatu1001 wrote:*shoots Chris, thereby ending his terror and making the world a less frightened place*

*Shoots nosferatu1001 for Heresy as he failed to invoke the Litany of Holy Execution*

Meh, I'm a chaos infiltrator anyway, I just like that sort of thing