Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

hi all so i am going to be starting my first fantasy army very shortly our local gaming store has started a fantasy escalation league and i want to build a de army the league ends at 2250 so here is what im planing on building just want some advice before i start buying models

supreme sorceress lvl 4 on a black dragon mount with 100pts of mi

shadowblade

sorceress lvl2 50pts mi

4x 10 man black ark corsairs dual handbows

2x 5man cold one knights

2 assassins

repear bolt thrower

Uh, what do you want us to do?

If you want tactics, then go over to the Tactics forum.

I think he wants to see if the things he picked up are right so:

Dont go sorc on dragon. She doesnt want to be in CC and dragon does. Its very expensive too. And if you want magic you need like 3-4 spellcasters at 2250. Otherwise take a caddy and ring of hotek.

Use regular assassin instead of shadowblade because of points cost.

For heroes/lords i would suggest: combat lord (maybe on dragon), caddy, BSB or maybe a cauldron

Black ark corsiars cannot really do anything than bog your enemy down with sheer volume of (frenzied) attacks. They need to be 20+ strong, preferably 25 with a assassin to really do something.

For DE core choices almost all other ones seem better to me. Obvious one are crossbowmen because their volume of fire in unique. And they are cheap too. And with shields they can actually stand a chance in combat when charged by something not importat. Second are dark riders which are one of the best if not THE best fast cavalery unit in the game. Take one or two units of riders and 2+ units of 10 crossbowmen always. Oh and the harpies too. They are amazing. 2x5 harpies should do.

At 2250 your only hitting power are unupgraded 5man coldone squads which can be gunned down quickly and if not they can be killed or whatever in that large game.

For more hitting power i would inclue some black guard with ASF banner, crimson death and maybe an assassin. Or some shades with GW to disrupt.

DE rare are shredtastic. First thing to fill out in DE are the rare choices. Decide if you want to go more combative (then take 2 hydras, or, which i like more for the balance, a hydra and 2 bolt throwers) or shooty, which is my most tried and successful one are 4 bolt throwers. But those need to be supported by atleast 40 crossbowmen.

Hope this helps.

Handbow corsairs are very much a specialty unit. There are a couple of tasks they do well, and for everything else they just plain fail. They cost just as much as RXBmen... with 1/3 the range and loosing AP. They cost more than spearmen, and don't fight in two ranks or have shields. They cost the same as XHW corsairs, and only get half as many attacks.

RHB corsairs do three things well. One, a minimum unit deployed 10 wide makes a good meat shield for Black Guard or other ItP unit you want shielded. March them up to 8" from the target and shoot. The enemy charges, you either stand and shoot (and die) or flee through the Black Guard. Then the Black Guard gets their turn... If the other guy doens't charge, reduce your frontage by five to one side, then wheel clear (or vice versa if the situation demands).

Two, they make good escorts for infantry blocks. Most units used for march blocking are scouts, fast cav or cheap fliers. RHB corsairs are pretty good at turning them into pincushions.

Third, they make good bodyguards for sorceresses. Again, most units used for hunting sorceresses hanging back are again either scouts, fast cav, or cheap fliers. The standard tactic is to send them in and direct all possible attacks against the sorcerss, making the kill almost ineveitable. RHBs are guaranteed the chance to stand and shoot (as RXBs may not be), giving them a good chance to panic the attacking unit - or decimating them to the point where they are no longer effective.

For literally everything else, RHB corsairs are an inferior choice.


Shadowblade and two extra assassins, eh? That's a lot of points sunk into assassins. Perhaps if we had a better idea where the assassins were going, and what kind of gift loadout you are considering we might be able to give you some more advice. Same with the sorceresses.

As far as the SS on Black Dragon, you WILL need the Pendant of Khaleth on her. Period. Because for the dragon to earn his points back, he's going to have to get into CC sometime, and then she will likely die, forcing the Monster Reaction roll which could bite you very badly. Even with the pendant, her survival is iffy. Most of us put a Dreadlord on the dragon, and use a dark pegasus for the Sorceresses - it's cheaper and MUCH less of a target.


My advice to you: Seach these threads and look at other Dark Elf army builds. Look at the Dark Elf threads in the Tactics section. Lastly, check out http://www.druchii.net/ for more advice.

thank you both for the advice you have given me alot to think about with the sorceress ont the dragon the plan was to give her the ring of darkness so all the attacks directed at her are at half ws/bs and 3 pendants that give magic resistance

It has been my experience that Corsairs in big block are just terrible in general. full SCR means that they want to be in combat as much as possible. But they cost 10 points each, attack with nerf swords, and can only get a 5+ in combat. Compare this to spears who get a 4+ in combat, fight in two ranks when not charging, cost 7 points, and has cheaper command options. The unit w0chtulka was purposing costs 300 points without the assassin, and is less durable than a unit of 25 spears. 190 points for 25 spears, 215 if you give them the war banner. Add a cheap master for some some combat res, and you have an efficient unit that can hold its own agains most units in the game.

Corsairs are best used in units that are as small as possible and still fulfill their role. So what Vulcan said about RHB corsairs is absolutely correct. If you want to use 2hw corsairs, a unit of 12-14 with JUST a banner and the frenzy banner is all you should use (then the question is why don't you use witches instead?), or you can pass on the banner and just go with a unit of 10-12 (for flanking, bait, and protect war machines against typical war machine hunters)

All that being said, the best place for corsairs is in the cool model but sucks in game section of your collection. They really aren't good at their role considering their cost and lack of focus. Crossbows do a better job of shooting, warriors are better at SCR, and witches do better at being a frenzied killing machine. They aren't terrible at 1k and less, but anything higher and they just don't cut it.

I don't like Dreadlords except on dragons. A master can do nearly everything as well as a lord can, but do it much cheaper. If you go with a lord choice, usually a supreme sorceress is the more efficient choice. She brings 3-4 power dice, 2 dispel dice, and a magic item allowance that is very nice. A dread lord just brings a combat body that might see 1-3 round of combat (unless mounted on flier or lucky) and a generous item selection that is usually squandered on keeping him alive.

My cores of choice are: dark riders w/ RxB, and spear warriors. I don't like corsairs for the stated reasons, and RxBs aren't all they are cracked up to be. Most of the time they hit on 5-6, only have S3, and their unit is very tactically limited. When you can get shooting on much better platforms, I really don't see them being useful other than in specific army types. I use them as points filler, after I take 2 units of dark riders and a block of warriors. (even then, harpies are more important) Also, putting shields on RxB is a waste, if they get into combat, they are dead. Adding points to doomed units is bad list building. All support squads are expendable, so make them cheap.

If you want small ranged units, shades will do very well. As opposed to rxb, they can actually hold their own, especially if you give them great weapons. I usually include a manbane rending star assassin in the group. His ranged ability is able to take down important targets with surprising ease, and in CC he is no slouch either.

make sure your CoKs stay cheap, naked is ideal. All the upgrades add very little to the unit compared to the cost.

You don't actually need to fill the rare slots. The hydra is amazing for its points, but hardly required in pairs. 1 should draw plenty attention, the other (if you run one) is just bonus. If you run RBTs, you should probably run 3-4 though, they are rather expensive, but they haven't failed me in games where I brought enough of them to make up for occasional bad rolling. (if I take 1-2 I usually miss or fail to wound on the turn it actually matters)

BG are one of those units that people wonder when they are aren't in your list at 2k and higher. ASF, champ with the combat ability of many armies heroes (if outfitted with CD, can beat many heroes) and being ItP and stubborn makes them a no brainer in terms of how good they are. Interestingly enough, they aren't as deadly in combat as many people would leave you to believe. Being S4 is fine against most armies, but against T4+ and/or good armor, they can struggle to kill enough models to avoid the strikes back. They are still going to do their job, which is to hold something up for a long time. They are an anvil unit, not a hammer. They just happen to be a anvil that hits somewhat hard. (and god forbid if you ever give them KB with the cauldron of blood)

I dont like corsairs either. Same with spearmen. DE have better CC units. Always 1/1 xbowmen/rider combo + some harpies.