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Can a Thunder fire cannon get cover from a barrage attack even if it is area terrain since it is a vehicle. If it lands on the crew it could but if it isnt then I dont think it could.

Thanks

broxus wrote:Can a Thunder fire cannon get cover from a barrage attack even if it is area terrain since it is a vehicle. If it lands on the crew it could but if it isnt then I dont think it could.

Thanks

If 50% of the units Crew is in Area Terrain with a cover save, the whole unit gets the cover save, IIRC. This was done to death a while back, but I cannot remember for the life of me how it ended.

So, I THINK (Keep in mind I am working from memory and am not 100% sure on this), if you have a TFC and a Techmarine, and the Techmarine is in cover, then the whole unit, the TFC included, gets a cover save. Likewise if a Big Gunz Battery with 3 Zzap Gunz and 6 Krew, and all 5 Crew are in cover, then they will get the cover save, but if the 3 gunz and 2 krew only are in cover, they won't.

Or it's just as simple as "Crew get cover saves from Barrage, Gunz Don't". As I said, I am not sure on this one!

well the rules clearly state it is treated as a vehicle and it even go so far to say that if a artillery unit goes to ground the gun wont benifit from this. I would have to say RAW no they dont since you have to roll to see what you hit first then resolve.

broxus wrote:well the rules clearly state it is treated as a vehicle and it even go so far to say that if a artillery unit goes to ground the gun wont benifit from this. I would have to say RAW no they dont since you have to roll to see what you hit first then resolve.

Yet the rules also say that "If half or more of the models in the target unit are in cover, then the entire unit is deemed to be in cover and all of its models may take cover saves", hence the confusion.

And under vehicle squadrons, it says to use the rules for determining whether a unit is in cover or not as normal for infantry (50%)

This same debate comes up in games with tyrant/swarm lord and tyrant guard in cover as well. Being a devout tyranid player, i couldn't possibly deny my SM opponents' their cover saves on t-fire cannons, because then they would deny mine on my tyrants.

discuss with your opponent beforehand but my general rule of thumb is 'cover is plentiful, argue about something more important and just let the dice roll'

I would say that gwar's original comment is correct---whether or not the cannon model itself is in cover is worked out like a vehicle, but the unit as a whole (including the cannon) gets a cover save like usual if the majority of the unit is in cover from the majority of the shooters. Note that although it fuzzes it up a little in the later discussion about being shot by multiple models, the cover rules specifically note that a unit's in cover if "half or more" of the unit is in cover, so the cannon gets the cover save if you hide the Techmarine appropriately.

I believe that is how the previous threads on here tended to lean as well.

well the bolstered defense 3+ cover save for it is a bit silly.

Yes, you get cover for the entire unit if the unit counts as in cover.

You determine if each model gains a cover save, and, as there are only 2 models, if either model gets cover then the whole unit does. This means the TM standing in cover will give the whole unit cover

This is the same situation as the HT/TG situation: 1 HT and 1TG with the TG in cover means the unit gains cover, as 50% of the unit counts as in cover.

broxus wrote:well the bolstered defense 3+ cover save for it is a bit silly.

Silly, or awesome? I think that's a nice little touch that makes the TFC a good bit more attractive. As it is, the gun is pretty fragile, even if you get the Marine into cover. I just wish I played on more tables with ruins so I could use it more...

If you keep you techmarine in area terrain there should be no problem.