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Hey hey.. I've been cruising the forums for some time, but decided to register and get some feedback on my list..

Brief intro: I used to play marines about 10 years ago.. and obviously there have been a few rule changes in between then and now. I'm in the process of redoing my army and list. I've picked up a few newer models, and I'm willing to spend a bit of cash but I'm not looking for a total gear shift to what I have now.

That said, I am open to comments and criticism and hope I can make what I think/hope is a decent list into something reasonably competitive.

Without further adieu,

[HQ]

Cato Sicarius

[TROOPS]

10 Man Tactical Squad; Meltagun, Missile Launcher
Sergeant; Powerfist
Rhino

10 Man Tactical Squad; Meltagun, Missile Launcher
Sergeant; Powerfist
Rhino

[ELITES]

9 Man Sternguard Squad; 2x Combi-Meltas, 2x Multi-Meltas
Sergeant; Power Weapon
Rhino

1 Ironclad; DCCW w/ Heavy Flamer, Seismic Hammer w/ Meltagun, Ironclad Assault Launcher
Drop Pod

[HEAVY SUPPORT]

Vindicator; Siege Shield

Vindicator; Siege Shield

Predator; TLAC, Sponson Heavy Bolters

------------

Should come out to 1500 on the nose. Cato rides with the stern guard in the rhino.

Idea is to be primarily a mechanized force capable of dealing with a majority of threats quickly. I understand that one drop pod is not ideal.. but marching an ironclad across the board is painful. I could drop the ironclad and drop pod and save 195 pts and put in something else.. but when I look at the list, I've filled my 3 HS slots, it's not enough to get a full tact squad, and I need somewhere for my IC to sit, hence the sternguard. I thought about dropping it and going with Land Speeders but I hate them so so much... open topped skimmers make me

I also thought about fitting in an assault squad but I hear mixed things.. that they get the job done on squad 1 and then get shot to bits by squad 2.

Sooo.. yeah.

Rip it up!
Make it better!
Or just tell me it's fine as is Do as you will

Firstly you don't have enouigh scoring for 1500 points get another tac squads. Their loadouts are good though.

Cato is quite pricey for not alot of benefit.

Sternguard need more combi weapons and drop the multimeltas for heavy flamers if you're going to take heavy weapons with them. You need to keep sternguard onm the move and they excell against infantry, so the Heavy flamer fits in nicely with their role. A smattering of combi-meltas allows them to tank hunt too if necessary. If you byump them up to 10 and get a DP for them they can drop with your Ironclad combat squad melt a transport and flame the contents and Cato could still stick with them.

Ironclad needs a buddy or the SG to drop with him. Otherwise he'll drop on turn 1 with no support do nothing and then get blown to hell. If you're going to do this you need 3 DPs at least.

Vindi work well in pairs.

I don't like the loadout of the pred in this list. Between the vindis and sternguard (and tacs) you've plenty of anti-infantry and horde control. Also what is the turret weapon? Is it the twinlinked Lascannon (awful choice) or the Autocannon? You've got it down as a twin-linked autocannon which is not an option.

Landspeeders aren't open topped only the Storm is. If you are OK with droping the ironclad then use those points to get another tac squad trim the sternguard to get the extras you want on it and more combiweapons in the sternguard squad. 7 Sternguard with Cato and 5 combi-weapons and 2 heavy will do more for you than the 9 you have now and free up points for that 3rd tac squad.

I'd dump the Pred for either the Las-sponson pred (if you've the points) for transport hunting at 120 points it is hugely efficient. Otr get some landspeeders with multimeltas for fast moving anti-armour fire.

RIGHT-Titan wrote:Cato Sicarius

Not a big fan of Cato kewl rules but to expensive for what he does. A librarian is my favorite choice they are cheap and really compliment Sternguard

10 Man Tactical Squad; Meltagun, Missile Launcher
Sergeant; Powerfist
Rhino

10 Man Tactical Squad; Meltagun, Missile Launcher
Sergeant; Powerfist
Rhino

I like it and disagree with Fling, at 1500 two tacticals are fine. A good option tho, at 1500 pts, is to take two Razorbacks and combat squad

9 Man Sternguard Squad; 2x Combi-Meltas, 2x Multi-Meltas
Sergeant; Power Weapon
Rhino

I would drop the Multi-meltas and just take two more combi-meltas if you think you need more, the heavy flamers a decent choice depending on the metagame in your neck of the woods. I prefer to droppod Sternguard but if you did that you'd need at least one more to make it effective.

1 Ironclad; DCCW w/ Heavy Flamer, Seismic Hammer w/ Meltagun, Ironclad Assault Launcher
Drop Pod

This is a good way to draw some fire from your Rhinos as they move up. The best move, most of the time, is to pop smoke first thing out of the pod.

Vindicator; Siege Shield

Vindicator; Siege Shield

Predator; TLAC, Sponson Heavy Bolters

The only thing I like better than a Vindicator is two Vindicators. Also if that's a AC/Heavy Bolter pred I like it, but I can see Fling's point your are lacking a little on the anti-tank side of things


Recommendations - I would drop Cato take a Libby that's a 100 points savings right there. I would drop the Predator and take some Attack bikes or Land Speeders with some Multi-meltas

What General Chaos said.

Thanks for the feedback I had originally in my list 3 tact squads and while I recognize that only gives me 2 scoring units, it's a little pricey to have a third tact squad...

It was meant to be an ACHB predator

What loadout do you do on the librarian if I go that route? Epistolary? Terminator Armor? Null zone/Gate of Infinity?

Seems like it could end up being almost the same price depending on how he's outfit. heh... what would you recommend?

Are speeders really so solid? Seems like they get face smashed a lot.. maybe just my inexperience with them...

Terminator librarians are great if you have terminators. Epistolary libbys add to much. I would just get a regular power armour, force weapon , and bolt pistol. Best powers I have found are null zone and avenger. Gates not bad but I really hate the randomness of deepstriking

Here's a revision.. lemme know what you think.

Changes:

- Cato Sicarius
- 2 Powerfists on sergeants
- 2 Rhinos
- 2 Sternguard Multi-meltas
- 1 Power weapon on Sternguard Sergeant
+ Librarian
+ 2 Land Speeders with multi meltas
+ 2 Drop Pods
+ 1 Sternguard Veteran
+ Predator Lascannon Sponsons
+ 1 Combi-Melta on Sternguard

I'm not sold on all the changes.. Most notably the Land Speeders and going with as many drop pods.

My 2 big concerns are that I've never had much success with speeders.. I find they fold like paper..

My other concern is the pods. I have 2 vindicators dropping pie plates on my enemies hopefully.. and the pods could block LOS, or they could be in close combat or dealing friendly fire from the vindicators..

Now I could hammer one flank with pods and try to hold the rest with my other stuff, but it really means I have 1 tactical squad with it's rhino as a troop holding.. the rest is all vehicles.

Maybe I'm wrong though..

Here is the list:

[HQ]

Librarian

[TROOPS]

10 Man Tactical Squad; Meltagun, Missile Launcher
Sergeant
Rhino

10 Man Tactical Squad; Meltagun, Missile Launcher
Sergeant
Drop Pod

[ELITES]

10 Man Sternguard Squad; 3x Combi-Meltas
Sergeant; Combi-Melta
Drop Pod

1 Ironclad; DCCW w/ Heavy Flamer, Seismic Hammer w/ Meltagun, Ironclad Assault Launcher
Drop Pod

[HEAVY SUPPORT]

Vindicator; Siege Shield

Vindicator; Siege Shield

Predator; AC, Sponson Lascannons

[FAST ATTACK]

Land Speeder; Multi-Melta

Land Speeder; Multi-Melta

-------------------

Lands 1500 pts on the nose again..

What powers has the librarian got?

You need more troops, really. I think you're spending too many points on elites. Your troops should cost more than the elties, not the other way round. Problem with the pods is you've only got 3, which means only 2 will drop pod in on the first turn - bad times. You really need multiple pods and a un-even number for drop pod armies to work. Because you need more troops one pod will be lost.

I like ironclads but they should be taken in pairs. I would drop the predator as tanks should be taken in pairs and get another ironclad in and pod and your pod problem is almost solved.

Speeders are fine though give them heavy flamers to BBQ hordes too.

Hope that helps!

I'll probably re-work it to have 3 tac squads in the list.

I'm thinking I could go with a Pedro Ultramarine proxy too and then take stern as scoring units... could solve things that way too, but I have a fondness of Combat Tactics.. which I would lose :(

3 drop pods are fine. Why are two pods dropping first turn "bad times" Mercer?

Actually looking at it.. I could drop the Pred.

That frees up 120 pts.. then I could add heavy flamers to the speeders and probably still have enough points to swap out the libby for a pedro proxy. Hows that for an idea?

Dont waste pts on tacticals. 2 units are fine in 1500 pts. I like the last list, but I would skip the sheilds on the vindicators and add heavy flamers on the speeders.

Shields seem so awesome though.. sit behind cover and crash through it and take a 24" shot?

People think 2 troops is a bad idea at 1500 because it limits you, but you have 2 x 10 mans and can combat squad them if you like. I think 2 x 10 mans is fine for marines at 1500 as long as you have the firepower to deter / destroy the enemy which 2 vindis and the roving sternguard give you.

Try out a few games, but the sternguard could be proxied for a few games and then decide if you want that third tac.

General_Chaos wrote:3 drop pods are fine. Why are two pods dropping first turn "bad times" Mercer?

Well he's got 3 pods with 3 different units in, so these can be easily prioritised when they drop. Also 2 drop pods coming in isn't much of a challenge and then the 3rd one as and when. It's not a huge amount of numbers or units on the first wave offensive. More the merrier is what I am thinking of here...

I'm probably going to drop the pods altogether except for the ironclad one so he doesn't have to footslog.. Pop Smoke, fire the meltagun and flamer.. then assault turn 2... just have to keep him out of range of too much heavy fire.

Ironclad definately needs a pod but you'll be going out out of the not so hot frying pan into the fire. You'll have the dreadnought on his own up front without support. Drop pod armies are best with about 5 pods, 3 come in first and then 2 after.

Yeah at this point I'm not interested in a drop pod army..

I'm much more interested in a "permanent" ride in the rhino.. If I drop the ironclad right I don't feel I need to worry about him not being supported..

I don't plan on dropping him surrounded by forces on all sides.. but rather ahead or on the flank where he can hopefully kill something that would be able to hurt me

Im going to play test it and see how it does.

That's one disadvantage of a drop pod army, being mobile. Once you pod in you've closest the gap but if that aggressive strike doesn't work you're in trouble. Then the troops don't have armour protection or transport.

That is a fair point about the ironclad.