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So, with the forthcoming release of Blood Angels, I've decided to revisit my old marine chapter that valued nobility and general snobbishness. I had an old terminator model I had converted to wield two power weapons, and it gave me an idea...

In balance terms, Duellists are probably a little underpowered. They have no ranged weapons, and few high-strength weapons. I'm more concerned with them being fluffy than necessarily good, but they have a few advantages in the form of Parry and Lightweight, plus an extra attack for having two weapons. Thoughts?


Terminator Duellists

In the noble classes of the planet Raxxis, a duel is considered the primary way to resolve disputes. Such duels traditionally involve two swords, one longer for attacking with the dominant hand, and one shorter for parrying in the other. Deaths are common, but it is considered a greater victory to defeat your opponents without harming him, forcing him to live with the shame of defeat.

This tradition has continued in the Sons of Orpheon chapter, where high ranking marines recruited from Raxxis frequently hold the art of duelling in high regard. Some of the most gifted practitioners carry this skill onto the battlefield.

200 Points

Terminator Duellist: (Same stats as standard marine Terminator. Hello copyright patrol)
Duellist Champion: (Same stats as Terminator Sergeant)

Unit Composition: 4 Terminator Duellists, 1 Duellist Champion.
Unit Type: Infantry

Wargear: Terminator Armour, Duellist Power Weapons.
Special Rules: Parry, Lightweight, And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Squads.
Dedicated Transports: May take a Land Raider, or Land Raider variant as transport.

Options:
May include up to 5 extra Terminator Duellists at +40 points each.
Every fifth model may replace their Duellist Power Weapons with a Thunderhammer at no extra cost.

Duellist Power Weapons: Duellist power weapons are a matched pair of power swords. As such, the model gains an extra attack for having two close combat weapons.
Parry: Terminator Duellists are able to turn aside enemy blows with ease. A model with Parry has a 4+ invulnerable save in close combat. (even when armed with a Thunderhammer, though this requires both hands to achieve).
Lightweight: Duellists modify their suits of tactical dreadnought armour to improve ease of movement. Duellists may sweeping advance despite wearing terminator armour.

GCMandrake wrote:
Lightweight: Duellists modify their suits of tactical dreadnought armour to improve ease of movement. Duellists may sweeping advance despite wearing terminator armour.

Hey there,

Just a little thing I noticed right off: there would have to be some downside to this "lightweight" malarky otherwise, well...they'd all just do it wouldn't they?

Ditching the usual invuln for termys would even it up I reckon, especially since you're giving them a 4++ in HTH.

I'd say reduce the 5++ outside CC to a 6++. Let them have something to help em out Vs plasma & such. You could say that the field uses a smaller power system & generator which reduces the weight but reduces the save.

Not a bad concept at all. I have a suggestion to wrap up the save issue.

Since these guys are masters of duelling and we are proposing new ubnts, I would use Artificer Armour instead of Terminator; add the special rule eternal warrior. These guys are the elite of their caste, it would not be too much of a stretch fluffwise to use artificer.

The Thunderhammer seems a bit off to me. It's is not very duel friendly, but lightning claws are.

I am also thinking WS5.

Drawbacks:

Face-to-face: Duellists prefer to face there enemy Mano e Mano and will not board a vehicle. They MAY use drop pods.

Cost: 50 pts per model. Champion +10 pts

All for One: May not be joined by IC.

I prefer the idea of artificer armour. Termie armour is just too clunky be made "light weight be anyone".

make it artificer and keep the Parry rule to give them a 5++

Since they are pure H2H maybe give them something suited to that role? FC or Fleet perhaps?

Fleet would definitely benefit the unit, as they are going to be running anyway. Fleet Marines would be scary. It may be a little too much though. He would definitely have to increase unit cost.

It's a really cool idea though. Lot's of opportunity for custom modelling.

Just count them as LC assault termis, the re-roll to hit shows their ability to more reliably damage opponents and the +1 Attack for 2 CCWs their speed and well, paired ccws.

Ok, points taken on board, here's attempt two. Good point about the Terminators, i guess i was too hung up on the one model I made. Looking at the new Sanguinary Guard models, they might get re-purposed...

These are based on Honour Guard, with the following changes:

Good Points:

The whole unit gains a watered down version of 'Honour or Death' (which may or may not be a good thing depending on what you're fighting).
Gain a 5+ Invulnerable Save in close combat.

Bad Points:

Lower leadership.
Gain Enmity should they fail a morale check due to losses. (a bad thing)
No Ranged Weapons
No cheap transports.
Fewer options.
More expensive (40 vs 35).

210 Points

Orpheon Duellist: (Marine Stats except A2, Ld8, 2+)
Duellist Champion: (Marine Stats except A3, Ld9, 2+)

Unit Composition: 4 Opheon Duellists, 1 Duellist Champion.
Unit Type: Infantry

Wargear: Artificer Armour, Duellist Power Weapons, Frag and Krak grenades.
Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Squads, Parry, Arrogant, Enmity.
Dedicated Transports: May take a Land Raider, or Land Raider variant as transport. (They consider Rhinos, Razorbacks and Drop Pods beneath them).

Options:
May include up to 5 extra Orpheon Duellists at +40 points each.
The Duellist Champion may exchange his Duellist Power Weapons for a Relic Blade for +15 points

Duellist Power Weapons: Duellist power weapons are a matched pair of power swords. As such, the model gains an extra attack for having two close combat weapons (not included in profile).
Parry: Orpheon Duellists are able to turn aside enemy blows with ease. A model with Parry has a 5+ invulnerable save in close combat.
Arrogant: An Orpheon Duellist or Duellist Champion must assign all his close combat attacks to an independent character where possible. Orpheon Duellists and Duellist Champions re-roll failed hits against independent characters.
Enmity: Orpheon Duellists value personal pride above all else, and take all slights personally. Should the Duellist unit fail a moral check, instead of falling back, they instead gain Rage and Fearless until the end of the battle.

Nice. much more beliveable. Are these for a custom chapter or just a random invention?

I believe he said custom chapter. They seem pretty cool, an interesting idea to say the least.

CrazyThang wrote:I believe he said custom chapter. They seem pretty cool, an interesting idea to say the least.

So he did.

Very good. Excellent custom rules. Should lend to some inteesting pieces.

I think it's an awesome concept.

If you're looking for fluff justification, read up on the Imperial Fists. They have a long history of emphasizing dueling, up to the point where receiving dueling scars is almost ritualized. If you haven't decided on a geneseed for your chapter yet, consider making them sons of Dorn, with a particular emphasis on dueling. (Of course, still using the BA codex)

As for your rules, I like them. My only issue is that I think it's silly to field them all as a single massed unit of of CC troops. In the BA codex, you've already got Death Company, Assault Squads as Troops, plus CC Terminators. Another massed unit of CC troops would be dull, even with their special rules.

I'd think a better way to field them would be akin to Sanguinary Priests from the BA, Priests from the IG codex or Wolf Guard from the SW codex. You can take a number of them in a unit, but instead of having them fight as a unit, you can add them as upgrade characters to other units. I think this would add some CC power to units that lack it, or further enhance the power of dedicated CC troops.

how about you give them a master crafted relic blade and a storm shield, that would be much better ^_^.

give them 3 attacks instead of just 2, and they would be awesome.

one could take a banner, working as:
+1 to attack, passes any morale test. and score one extra wound in cc.
Parry could be replaced with civilised: if you score one wound per model (in a 5 man squad, scoring 5 wounds) or more, you gain +1 to wounds
and
Dodge: because their armour is so lightweight, terminators are able to dodge an attack. on 5+, the attack misses (done after to hit.)
terminator champion could have WS5 or something, because all terminators are the same .

200 pts isn't good enough, I'd say 250-300..

I like it. Only broken thing I see is ATSKNF lets you fail moral checks if IIRC which means they can always get Rage and Fearless.

no. atsknf means you can regroup without having to pass a morale test, nm what.

you're thinking of combat tactics.

Commander Endova wrote:As for your rules, I like them. My only issue is that I think it's silly to field them all as a single massed unit of of CC troops. In the BA codex, you've already got Death Company, Assault Squads as Troops, plus CC Terminators. Another massed unit of CC troops would be dull, even with their special rules.

Actually, though I'm considering using Exalted bits for the conversions, my army is a codex one. I see them as a replacement for Assault Terminator squads (more evident in the first iteration) than just another combaty unit.

As for ATSKNF, the rule doesn't actually do anything for this unit, as it only takes affect should they fall back, which Duellists will not. I may consider removing it. The lack of Chapter Tactics is on purpose: my army would be strictly codex, and hence never need to replace the rule, and the unit should not be allowed to voluntarily fall back (and hence voluntarily gain Rage and Fearless).

As for the chapter scheme, I have a few models painted, but no decent pictures, so here's a mock up:



Initial fears would be that they look too much like Ultramarines, but actually they look quite different. I've never had anyone confuse them with Ultras yet. The blue is much lighter and slightly green, and there's no change of colour on the pad rims.

Captain Solon wrote:no. atsknf means you can regroup without having to pass a morale test, nm what.

you're thinking of combat tactics.

Indeed I was, didn't have codex with me at the time and my marines rarely make Morale tests in CC.

And I see what you mean with the Rage and Fearless, would make them very terrifying.