Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Now, I thought of this, not necesarily scout marines, but like scout sentinels.

the idea is so they could have some fast, firesupport for scouts.

This is just a thought, counting in another form of walker, I think it might add a different layer to the game.

Scout dreadnought: 135 points

Type: Walker

FAV: 12 SAV: 11 RAV 10

WS 3 BS 3 S6 I4 A2

Special rules: Scouts(?) Deepstrike(?)

May exchange Multi-melta for
Twin linked
Heavy Flamer ... 5 points
Heavy Bolter ... 10 points
Dreadnought sniper rifle ... 25 points*
Autocannon ... 25 points
Lascannon 30 points
or
Missile launcher 5 points
Typhoon missile launcher 15 points
Dreadnought close combat weapon with storm bolter... 5 points
may exchange storm bolter for heavy flamer ... 10 points

May exchange dreadnought close combat weapons' storm bolter
Heavy flamer
May exchange DCCW for:
Dreadnought snuper rifles ... 20 points
Missile launcher... 25 points
Typhoon launcher ... 35 points
Autocannon ... 30 points

Dreadnought sniper rifle:
Range 48", SX AP3 Sniper, Heavy 2

Thoughts?

NB1 This idea is meant to be to make a different type of weapon. it's not necesarily just to make SM even better, because they're an excelent army.
NB2 If you don't like the idea, don't comment.

So it's an armored sentinel with +1 Side armor & a few more options?

Fluff wise this has no backing either. Dreadnoughts are only for heroic warriors who can no longer continue fighting on their own. To give a scout such an honor would be to disgrace those who came before him.

Even the best scout is not yet a full marine, Save for the sarges teaching, them in which case it'd be a regular dread.

I have to agree with the Shas'o on this one. Dreadnought are priceless, ancient wonders of technology, handed out to the hardest Marine veteran badasses out there who simply refuse to die. Fluff-wise, a chapter should and would be very reluctant to hand out such a dreadnought armour on a lowly scout - where he came from, there are probably a dozen more recruits and he really did not have the centuries of battle to prove himself that a Marine veteran had.

Since you wrote that if people don't like the idea they shouldn't post you probably didn't want to hear this. So, some constructive criticism:

Nothing actually should prevent Marines from using sentinel-like walkers with healthy, living scout pilots. Would fluff-wise not be such a big problem, I think. However, I'd go and reduce front armour to AV11, simply to have a distinction beteween ceramite-plated ancient technosorcery dreadnought armour and some light scouting device with legs.

Make it a sentinel type vehicle rather than a dreadnought. As for fast support for scouts don't SM have land speeders?

I mean scouts currently have the option to take a HB or Missile launcher along with sniper rifles and the Bolter which is above average for its type. so they can actually hold their own.

I'd still want it to be a dread, even if it's not quite a hero.

Second idea: instead of being just a dreadnought, it's just piloted by an honoured scout.

I really just like the idea of dreadnought snipers.

Maybe hack apart a dread chassis to make it like an open cockpit for the scout to sit in?

Take off the fron and top and keep the side so you can still mount the weapons.
Although fluff wise this woudl probably be looked at as a horrendous heresy - cutting up an honoured dread sacophagus so a scout can sit in it.

Other option is to beef up and re-inforce a sentinel so it looks more space marine-ey

Hey, Fluff wise it might not make sense, but it looks balanced enough point-wise. If it benefits your army, go ahead and use it!

I like the idea of a scout dread. I would definitely go with the scout or infiltrate and maybe the fleet special rule. Front Armour 12 would be acceptable, but I would reduce Side 10, to repesent the armour being focused where it is needed most. I would give the following weapons options:

Multi-melta
TL Heavy Bolter
Assault Cannon
TL Heavy Flamer

The DCCW would be lighter weight, so I would reduce the Dread's strength characteristic; maybe S6(8). Also, I envision it as a big chainsaw thing, so it should convey a bonus to moving through difficult terrain. Also, the DCCW arm would not have a stormbolter/flamer.

Scout: stealthy, silent lone operative

Dreadnought: six-metre high bellowing ceramite death-monster armed with tank weapons

Do you see where I'm going with this?

Captain Solon wrote:I'd still want it to be a dread, even if it's not quite a hero.

Second idea: instead of being just a dreadnought, it's just piloted by an honoured scout.

I really just like the idea of dreadnought snipers.

Then give a Dreadnought a long-barreled autocannon as a 'sniper rifle'.

"Honored Scouts" wouldn't be interred in a Dreadnought. They'd be stripped of the progenoids and the body left to rot, that's it. The "Honored Scouts" like Sergeants Telion/Naaman are full Battle-Brothers, or at times even Terminator veterans. They just opted to go back to the Scout Company where they feel most comfortable.

Captain Solon wrote:NB2 If you don't like the idea, don't comment.

Oh so you only want to hear people say how great the idea is then?

jbunny wrote:Oh so you only want to hear people say how great the idea is then?

Ahh, the Lalala-I-Can't-Hear-You technique...

Look, it's a sci-fi/fantasy game. Anything can be plausible with the proper explanation. Sentinels, which are pretty heavy and loud have a scout function. Warhounds are known as scout titans.

A battle field is really noisy and many times troops engaged in combat are either deafened or using hearing protection.

A dreadnought that is purpose built to be lighter and quieter; less armour, less weight/ammo, and less hydraulics (lower AV, less armaments, lower strength); would be perfectly viable.

Now, think about the hidden mysteries of the Machine God. Sound dampeners, optical distortion fields, master-crafted components, etc. These don't have to have a specific in game effect, but they do add to plausibility. The Marine intombed doesn't care how it works, only that it does.

If done right it does not effect game balance and certainly is not a game-breaker.

Seriously, the new BA dread has magna-grapplers that can drag a TANK!!! How does anyone get off giving Captain Solon a hard time about this...

I think the problem is only in that it functions as a dread in the sense that it's an honored soldier entombed inside... but not yet a space marine. Heresy? I think so. I think it would just barely be above putting a guardsman in a dread.

Other than that it seems balanced and pretty useful for that kind of: "hey look over there bet you didn't see that comin'! Pew pew!" (which I personally love as an Eldar player.)

I would say bump front armor down to 11 though.

I wouldn't go so far as to suggest to entomb a neophyte scout in the armor. It should be an honored battle brother. Sorry, I should have clarified.

I think AV11 Front is perfectly resonable as well.

jw7007 wrote:I wouldn't go so far as to suggest to entomb a neophyte scout in the armor. It should be an honored battle brother. Sorry, I should have clarified.

I think AV11 Front is perfectly resonable as well.

Oh that first part wasn't aimed at anyone in particular. You were quite clear enough

CrazyThang wrote:I think the problem is only in that it functions as a dread in the sense that it's an honored soldier entombed inside... but not yet a space marine. Heresy? I think so. I think it would just barely be above putting a guardsman in a dread.

Other than that it seems balanced and pretty useful for that kind of: "hey look over there bet you didn't see that comin'! Pew pew!" (which I personally love as an Eldar player.)

I would say bump front armor down to 11 though.

I like the contribution.

what about spacewolves scouts? they're elites.

Also, A dreadnought would be able to take on a variety of roles, fire support, close-range combat, troop crushing and tank hunting, I don't see why they wouldn't be allowed to take scout armament.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jbunny wrote:

Captain Solon wrote:NB2 If you don't like the idea, don't comment.

Oh so you only want to hear people say how great the idea is then?

Well, I shouldn't have to hear "this is gak, can we create a single thread for the post?"

thats a waste of space, and anyone who thinks like that should be banned.

My personal opinion.

Captain Solon wrote:

CrazyThang wrote:I think the problem is only in that it functions as a dread in the sense that it's an honored soldier entombed inside... but not yet a space marine. Heresy? I think so. I think it would just barely be above putting a guardsman in a dread.

Other than that it seems balanced and pretty useful for that kind of: "hey look over there bet you didn't see that comin'! Pew pew!" (which I personally love as an Eldar player.)

I would say bump front armor down to 11 though.

I like the contribution.

what about spacewolves scouts? they're elites.

Also, A dreadnought would be able to take on a variety of roles, fire support, close-range combat, troop crushing and tank hunting, I don't see why they wouldn't be allowed to take scout armament.

Space Wolves Scouts are full Battle-Brothers who don't play nice with others. And while a Dreadnought would be able to take on a variety of roles, it's still the most heroic and celebrated members of the Chapter who are given the privilege to be entombed. They tend to be legendary heroes of the Chapter, whose deeds would make Chapter Champions look bad.

Scouts don't fall into that category, and nor would they use what is essentially a living relic of the Chapter as a forward scout when they have Servo-Skulls and Land Speeders/Scout Bikers to fill the same role. It's a neat idea, but again--it's something completely unnecessary.

Captain Solon wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

jbunny wrote:

Captain Solon wrote:NB2 If you don't like the idea, don't comment.

Oh so you only want to hear people say how great the idea is then?

Well, I shouldn't have to hear "this is gak, can we create a single thread for the post?"

That's a waste of space, and anyone who thinks like that should be banned.

My personal opinion.

And others are of the opinion that you should flesh your ideas out better along with taking the time to come up with a more in-depth background reasoning and actually look at the Codex and what roles are already filled than inventing something that goes against the established fluff and background--rather than just posting whatever idea of the day you have.

You're going to get comments either way, why not actually take the time and make something you can be proud of rather than making something you get defensive over people calling it a silly idea?

ah. You see, thats critism. I meant people who just diss the idea, generally without a point.

And others are of the opinion that you should flesh your ideas out better along with taking the time to come up with a more in-depth background reasoning and actually look at the Codex and what roles are already filled than inventing something that goes against the established fluff and background--rather than just posting whatever idea of the day you have.

You're going to get comments either way, why not actually take the time and make something you can be proud of rather than making something you get defensive over people calling it a silly idea?

Yes, some people may have well thought out plans when they post, and it is a good idea to do so, but otheres may not.

Posting to a Forum is not creating something. It's sharing thoughts and ideas. It communicating. Communicating leads to fully formed thoughts. Which can lead to creating something. Rather than be negative about thoughts and ideas, we could be informative.

As far as Codex, Fluff, and background goes. The fluff changes all the time. GW often creates duplicative units for new armies, so if a person wants to create something new to fill a role that is done in one army by bikes, but speeders in another... why not. I thought the hobby was about creativity and thinking outside of the box.

No no your very wrong, the box is comfortable and warm inside! Come back! We have cookies!

Fluff issues not-withstanding, I'd have no problem with a killa kan-sized scout dread.

im inspired to make this model now, im thinking Aliens loader bot look to it, just no ripley in it.

just have it be a regular dreadnought that likes to be in the scout company.

reduce its armor, keep WS and BS as a normal dred, add the weapons you want(the sniper rifle is cool )

My problem with the "Scout Dreadnought" is if there's a sniper rifle equivalent...
Why the heck would you put it on a Dreadnought when mounting it on a Land Speeder Storm or a Sentinel would give it a far better platform for infiltration/scouting?

Another thing to put out there, despite what people think: Sentinels are not scouts because they're "quiet". They're scouts because of the sophisticated sensor arrays and communication gear put on-board. Look at any modern day scout vehicles from armored units and go from there if you really want to design a scout Dreadnought.

Can i just say why not just have a mini exoskeleton thing? Something like the small walkers in Red Faction : Guerilla

Make it have an incredibly low AV (maybe even *shock* open-topped) but give it Scouts, Infiltrate, Move Through Cover and some Scout based weapons (twinlinked heavy bolter, missile launcher, heavy sniper rifles-like a twinlinked normal sniper rifle?- or a heavy flamer)

Ta da

A light SM combat walker. Very flimsy, but scouty and sneaky.


And certainly not an Aged Honoured Battle Brother

"A mini exoskeleton thing" is...Terminator Armour. So no.

how about: those who are showing great adeptity controling his weapons and such, he skips sniper rifles, bikes and CCW becoming entombed in a Scout leaper (better name?) for the remainder of his tenure.

New model:
squads of 1-3
75 points each. Can be taken as a troop or fast attack?
WS4 BS4 S5 I8* Av 11, 10, 10
Stealth* Deep strike, -or- infiltrate, scouts.
Type: Walker, Open topped
* these are up for suggestion.
Wargear:
DCCW with storm bolter, Multi-melta
May upgrade SB with
Heavy flamer ... 10 pts
N: if you exchange the DCCW, you loose the Storm bolter (or heavy flamer.)
May exchange DCCW with:
Dreadnought sniper rifle ... 15 pts
M. launcher ... 15 pts
Twin-linked heavy bolter ... 20 pts
load it with hellfire bombs ... 10 pts
Multi-melta exchanged for:
DCCW w/ storm bolter (treated as the other one.) 20 pts
heavy flamer, 10 pts
Dreadnought sniper rifle 15 pts
Twin-linked heavy bolter ... 20 pts
load it with hellfire bombs ... 10 pts
TL heavy flamer 25 pts

I meant like a smaller Penitent Engine. Same height (or slightly smaller) as a sentinel. Give it two Dred CCWs and make them one upgradeable to a missile launcher, TL heavy bolters or a heavy flamer.

Something like this, but with guns and without a jetpack

http://redfaction.wikia.com/wiki/Light_Walker

Bear in mind that were this to exist, it would be for Scout support, not a big lumbering normal Dred. It would not tot seriously heavy weapons, just one (so not AC or multi-meltas) lighter support weapon

CrazyThang wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jbunny wrote:

Captain Solon wrote:NB2 If you don't like the idea, don't comment.

Oh so you only want to hear people say how great the idea is then?

Well, I shouldn't have to hear "this is gak, can we create a single thread for the post?"

thats a waste of space, and anyone who thinks like that should be banned.

My personal opinion.

You`re taking it too far. One thread for all your ideas would be nice, so that people that like your ideas can read all of them in one thread, and banning people who disagree with you?
On topic, this isn`t an idea i would use, but if you want to, play it. Just make sure your opponent agrees