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I was playing a recent game where the player split his SM units into 2 and effectively deployed 4 troops. His argument seemed to make sense but it does seem odd that SM can effectively put 4 troops on the table in DOW. Is this correct?

His army had 30 terminators with INV +3. He also had a number of scouts with rockets which could go to ground and get a 2+ cover save. Cannot remember the hero that went with them but he can move 12", move up to 6 in the fire phase and assault up to 6. Nasty. I play Tau and found the list somewhat hard to defeat on objectives. In fact I lost. Still wondered about the set up as it was almost a game winner as his scouts were already in position.

How many Points?

What chapter was he playing?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

horsa wrote:I was playing a recent game where the player split his SM units into 2 and effectively deployed 4 troops. His argument seemed to make sense but it does seem odd that SM can effectively put 4 troops on the table in DOW. Is this correct?

His army had 30 terminators with INV +3. He also had a number of scouts with rockets which could go to ground and get a 2+ cover save. Cannot remember the hero that went with them but he can move 12", move up to 6 in the fire phase and assault up to 6. Nasty. I play Tau and found the list somewhat hard to defeat on objectives. In fact I lost. Still wondered about the set up as it was almost a game winner as his scouts were already in position.

And no, He cannot deploy 4 combat (5 man) squads he can deploy 2

SM Codex Page 51
"The Decision to split the unit into combat squads, as well as which models go into each combat squad, must be made when the unit it deployed"

"If you decided to split a unit into combat squads, then each combat squad is treated as a separate unit for all game purposes from that point"

I don't See ANYTHING in the 5th ed SM Codex where anyone gives Terms a 3++ save

30 Terms is legal (with all 3 Elite Slots)

I don't See ANYTHING in the 5th ed SM Codex where anyone gives Terms a 3++ save

Storm shield

He then can deploy up to two units from his Troops selections and up to one unit from his HQ

Troops and HQ units that can infiltrate, can do so, as long as at the end of deployment the player still has a maximum of one HQ and two Troops units on the table.

The two bits above from the DoW deployment pretty much say no, he cannot deploy four Troops units......................... A single squad split into two Combat squads becomes two units.

Volkov wrote:

I don't See ANYTHING in the 5th ed SM Codex where anyone gives Terms a 3++ save

Storm shield

Thank you! I stand corrected...


Regular Marine Storm shields are WAY cooler then mine..

BT ones just give a 4++ in CC..

:/

Yeah you were cheated. and i think the character is Shrike so it would be a raven guard army

Shrike is the only fleet SM character that would also make the rest of his army fleet so those 30 Terminators can run and assault. Not that in the shooting phase the movement is only d6" not an automatic 6"!

Tau are pretty screwed over by DoW deployment anyway not matter what army you're facing.

However he was not allowed to deploy 4 Troops units only 2. That means if one squad is in a transport that is your 2 units done!

don_mondo wrote:as long as at the end of deployment the player still has a maximum of one HQ and two Troops units on the table.

This is the key statement and often overlooked.

Unless he infiltrated two combat squadded scout squads. Then he could have put them on the table without a problem. He must have deployed the scouts with teleport homes and deepstruck the terminators, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to deploy the terminators at all.

Looking at it for 1785 you can get:

Shrike - Combat Tactics to Fleet
3x 10 man Terminator Squads
2x 10 man Scout squads with Camo Cloaks

That would be it though, so it is possible that he did this legally for deployment. Also, if he joined Shrike to a Terminator Squad he could infiltrate them up close as well. The 12" termintor movement though is right out and I imagine he had nothing to shoot with anyway since the terminators were probably all TH/SS Terms.

Actually, this list seems kind of cool....

calypso2ts wrote:Unless he infiltrated two combat squadded scout squads. Then he could have put them on the table without a problem.

No, because at the end of deployment he must have no more than two troop units - two scout units split into combat squads is four units. Deploying infiltrators is still done during deployment so it does not bypass the DoW requirements.

Thank you for clearing that up for me. I really appreciate it.

It was an 1850 list with Shrike. If he is killed, do the terminators lose fleet? He used fleet on them all game, even though Shrike took a RG shot on turn 2!

No. They keep fleet, they've replaced Combat Tactics for it just for purchasing Shrike.

On a side note, that list looks very gimmicky to me. Mech/Skimmer Mech/Jetbike, reserve armies prob. counter it real well.

Thank you for the clarification. There is a tournament this Saturday and if I go there is a reasonable chance I will be facing this army again. I run a semi-static Tau and I frankly have no concrete ideas on how to defeat this army, although I will give it a good try.