Why take lightning claws over thunder hammers?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Crusnik**

My friend who plays space marines is getting some assault terminators. Im not so much worried about how to take them out, but I am curious on what loadout people tend to take. I feel like the storm shield thunder hammer combo doesnt really have to many downsides, you get a 3+ invulnerable save and a power attack. Im not really sure why you would even bother with the lightning claws, could anyone fill me in on this?

**Therion**

There are no compelling reasons for vanilla SM to take lightning claw Terminators instead of TH/SS. The Blood Angel Terminators will have S5 I5 on the charge though so the lightning claws might actually be usable, especially as the TH/SS variant costs 5 points more per model.

**Powerguy**

For any of the codex's which use the old SS rules I guess they could be worth it. Otherwise the only reason to take the lightning claws would be to have 1-2 of them in a squad just in case you come up against something you would rather try and kill before it can hit you (i.e running into another TH/SS squad a couple of lightning claws could tip things your way by killing a couple before all the thunder hammers go).

**Crusnik**

well, I guess going all thunder hammers wasnt a bad idea after all. Go figure I suppose.

**wuestenfux**

I'd take Assault Marines with thunder hammers, nothing else.
They served me well in several RTTs. I won them all.

**cervidal**

You take them to counter Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield terminators. They strike before them, have only an 11% less likely chance to wound the terminators, and force a ton of 3+ saves. You know, those armor your non-Terminators fail regularly.

You're better off with Claws against TH/SS termies and any unit that has one or no power weapons.

**Vanguard27**

Simple, Magnet them and switch back and forth

**helgrenze**

As I see it... LC Termies have an advantage of speed and dual LCs still reroll missed wounds. TH get the advantage, if they survive, of forcing any wounded model to go on I-1, plus the double str.....

I like the rerolls more and as I play a Raven Guard based SM, it fits the fluff.

**tastytaste**

Just make sure to use the power of wound allocation so you can always get a +3 inv.

I always take a few LC for more attacks and going first before many armies. Also if you run Khan with your Termies that I5 is really going first =)

**Raxmei**

Strike faster, score slightly more wounds against T4 and under. For the big scary things that you'd normally want assault terminators to deal with the thunder hammer and storm shield are better.

**SagesStone**

Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields for MC and Vechicles.
Lightning Claws for infantry. Either you can specialize or try to mix both into it to give the squad a few more preffered targets to run after once it's finished taking out it's main one. Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield makes them more durable though, but it woun't help them fight stuff like Boyz, they'd rather have the Lightning Claws for that. If you have 5, it would probably work out best most of the time to have 2 or three Thunder Hammers and the rest Lightning Claws. Throw them in a Redeemer and they don't need the Claws as much as the Redeemer will handle a majority of the infantry for them.

**Asrodrig**

I run Kor'sarro Khan with a unit of LC Terminators, so they get their Furious Charge and Hit and Run.

**Ringarin**

I use 2 TH/SS and 3 LC. But I use Deathwing from the DA codex. So my save isn't as good as newer marines. We don't use a ton of MC or high armor vehicles. Tend to remove as casualties the ones that we don't need.

**Culler**

Lightning claws: extra attack, almost as good chance to wound against T4, strike before power fists and Orks/Guard.
TH/SS: strength 8 so instakills characters and nobs, 3+ invuln makes them resistant to things that normally kill terminators, good at killing MCs and vehicles.

Against WS4 T4 (MEQs, Orks) a termie with 2 LCs gets 1.125 wounds when not charging, whereas a TH termie gets .83. So lightning claws actually get more kills. It's LC 1.5 vs. TH 1.25 on the charge.

If you've got Vulkan then it becomes better to run all TH/SS.

**Grey Templar**

LCs are fine when you don't have many enemy Power weapons to worry about. TH/SSs are better for tournement play because they are incrediably resilliant and can still kill anything.

**Razerous**

-Extra Attack

-Strikes at I4

-Re-roll to-wound.

**Khornatedemon**

I feel in a basic squad of 5 th/ss is the better way to go for the most part. When squads start getting larger a mix is not such a terrible option. Anytime you can find a way to give LC's furious charge or re-rolls to hit they become pretty awesome. And LC termies with a nullzone libby is a good counter to th/ss termies.

With the new BA I plan on running 3x LC and 4x TH/SS in a crusader with a sang priest nearby and a libby for the preferred enemy power.

**Sanctjud**

Claws: more attacks at initiative and force multipliers.
Else: Hamminators.

**Krellnus**

I would say that it really depends on what you face on a regular basis, however, TH/SS termies seem to be more common.

**kaptaink**

Depends what you do. I keep my Termies back to kill the tough things that would roll through my Tacticals.

**The Grog**

Claws won't help you much without some way to strike before your opponent. This usually means somehow getting to I5, but they are always good against powerfists.

I thought the effective damage breakpoint between the two choices was somewhere between T4 and T5, with claws only pulling a significant advantage once you are attacking T3. It's been a while though.

A 4+ rerolled is 75%. A 5+ rerolled is 5/9 or 55%.

**whitedragon**

1 LC marine thrown in with 4x TH/SS marines makes your squad complex and allows you to play around with the wound allocation rolls a little bit.

**Krellnus**

True.

**Krall**

TH/SS Termies get destroyed by boyz/nobz. LC gives you a chance to attack before losing all of your models.

whitedragon wrote:1 LC marine thrown in with 4x TH/SS marines makes your squad complex and allows you to play around with the wound allocation rolls a little bit.

Wound allocation on terminators?

**Krellnus**

Krall wrote:TH/SS Termies get destroyed by boyz/nobz. LC gives you a chance to attack before losing all of your models.

whitedragon wrote:1 LC marine thrown in with 4x TH/SS marines makes your squad complex and allows you to play around with the wound allocation rolls a little bit.

Wound allocation on terminators?

That is true, than in turn the LC terminators are basically boned against MCs but, this isn't a game of big uber killy units *cough* warmachine *cough* you just can't have everything your way unfortunatley.