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1) Sort of a bizarre interaction but I just wanted to see how this would play out. If I was playing with Kor'Sarro Khan and outflanked a unit of my army and the outflank roll came out to a 1 (meaning my left short edge) and my enemy had already completely blockaded that entire 4 foot edge with units so that no matter where I came on the table I would have to move within 1 inch of one of his models, what would be the outcome? What justification can you provide for this outcome? Rulebook pages?

2) Now I think that this just speaks to my lack of tournament experience; I realize that tourney organizers are able to call the shots in most cases, but generally speaking, If I enter into a tournament that is using typical tournament rules and if I write up a list that includes:

1 Dreadnought
10 Marines
1 Drop Pod
1 Rhino
5 Terminators
1 Land Raider Crusader

(Rest of army is irrelevant)

and in this 3 round tournament I want to switch things up in the following way:
Game 1) Dread is in the drop pod and 5 Marines are in the Rhino and last 5 are walking on with 5 Terminators in the LRC.
Game 2) Dread is walking on, 5 marines in the drop pod and 5 marines in the Rhino.
Game 3) 5 Terminators are deep striking, Dread is in the Drop Pod, 5 Marines in the LRC and 5 Marines in the Rhino.

Is there anything wrong with this in general? When writing up a tournament list are certain units glued to a transport?

Please dont answer with "Ask the organizer", I'm curious how this works in general.

3) I think I've read the answer to this before, but I cannot find it off-hand right now. If I have a unit of 10 Terminators, can I choose to have only 3 of them shoot their weapons even though all 10 are in range? Can arbitrary decisions like this be made? Can I choose to have only 3 of them make assault attacks even though all are in base-to-base contact?

I know that this might sound mighty newbish of me, but I just want to get some things perfectly clear... Thanks!

1.) The game breaks as there are no rules to cover what happens in this situation. Some people will say that they are destroyed as they can't complete a compulsory move, some people will say to make the move and make sure you end more than an 1" away from the enemies. Personally, I like the idea of rolling on the Deepstrike Mishap table and applying the results on there (however, this is in no way, shape or form in the rules).

2.) As far as the dedicated transports go, you have to purchase them for the unit and only they can start the game in them (thus on your list, you would have pod for dread and rhino for tac squad or somesuch). For the LRC, as long as it was bought as a heavy, then any unit could start in it at the start of the game.

3.) Yes, you can decide who/how many fire. It's assumed that all models fire (this is in the rulebook under the shooting rules I believe) and you must nominate those that are not going to fire.

visavismeyou wrote:1) Sort of a bizarre interaction but I just wanted to see how this would play out. If I was playing with Kor'Sarro Khan and outflanked a unit of my army and the outflank roll came out to a 1 (meaning my left short edge) and my enemy had already completely blockaded that entire 4 foot edge with units so that no matter where I came on the table I would have to move within 1 inch of one of his models, what would be the outcome? What justification can you provide for this outcome? Rulebook pages?

There is absolutely nothing in the rules covering this.

So the three main 'house rules' ways to play it are:


1) The unit counts as destroyed.
2) They unit automatically arrives in the next turn (or you roll for them again next turn to see if/where they arrive).
3) They are allowed to enter from their standard table edge in this case.


For the INAT, we ruled for #1, but there is no particular basis for any of these in the rules. This is a complete gray area of the rules.

2) Now I think that this just speaks to my lack of tournament experience; I realize that tourney organizers are able to call the shots in most cases, but generally speaking, If I enter into a tournament that is using typical tournament rules and if I write up a list that includes:

1 Dreadnought
10 Marines
1 Drop Pod
1 Rhino
5 Terminators
1 Land Raider Crusader

(Rest of army is irrelevant)

and in this 3 round tournament I want to switch things up in the following way:
Game 1) Dread is in the drop pod and 5 Marines are in the Rhino and last 5 are walking on with 5 Terminators in the LRC.
Game 2) Dread is walking on, 5 marines in the drop pod and 5 marines in the Rhino.
Game 3) 5 Terminators are deep striking, Dread is in the Drop Pod, 5 Marines in the LRC and 5 Marines in the Rhino.

Is there anything wrong with this in general? When writing up a tournament list are certain units glued to a transport?

Please dont answer with "Ask the organizer", I'm curious how this works in general.

Well, it *really does* depend on the tournament organizer.

But for most tournaments (let's take Adepticon, for example), you write one army list and have to stick with it, and dedicated transports (drop pods, Rhinos, etc) are purchased in your army list for a specific unit, so they could not be 'switched around' from game to game.

3) I think I've read the answer to this before, but I cannot find it off-hand right now. If I have a unit of 10 Terminators, can I choose to have only 3 of them shoot their weapons even though all 10 are in range? Can arbitrary decisions like this be made? Can I choose to have only 3 of them make assault attacks even though all are in base-to-base contact?

Page 16 tells you that you can choose to not fire with certain models in a unit, so that is completely allowed.

When it comes to close combat, they specify that 'all engaged models will fight...' (pg 35), so you don't get a choice on whether or not they'll fight in close combat.



I know that this might sound mighty newbish of me, but I just want to get some things perfectly clear... Thanks!

If a dedicated transport is bought for a specific unit, your list must stay with that configuration for all the games in the tourney unless there is a sidebar special set of rules.

Just because the list has the same models and points doesn't mean it is the same list.

No saying a vehicle is dedicated for this unit this game and then becomes dedicated for a different unit next game. If it is bought as an individual force org slot unattached to a unit, you may then deploy however you see fit.

And there is no requirement to shoot all your weapons if in range as far as I can tell. it says : "a player may choose not to fire with certain models if he prefers" P16. Units like Burna boyz may explicitly choose not to shoot all thier burnas so they can use power weapons in CC for some models.

I'm really confused.

You are all saying that the outflanking thing is a grey area. Page 11 of the rule book specifically states that you cannot move through models, and must stay 1" away from all enemy models except during assault. Well, since you cannot do this, you cannot enter the table. Since at the end of your movement you are off the table, you are destroyed. I don't really see any grey area. True, it's combining a few different rules in ways that GW never expected them to be combined, but it DOES follow all the rules.

about 6 months ago there was a photo running around of a game in an international tournament between a french tau player and a Russian white scars player. The Russian choose to hold his entire army in reserve (he had no tanks) so the french player, having a large number of kroot infiltrated them right onto the enemy board edge. He had enough of them to span the whole 6 foot edge and still be in coherency. Game over.. he wins. without even playing a turn. The photo was of the Russian arguing with a judge with while the French guy was smiling over his long line of kroot. hehe...

Sinjin wrote:I'm really confused.

You are all saying that the outflanking thing is a grey area. (...)Since at the end of your movement you are off the table, you are destroyed. I don't really see any grey area.

The problem with this is that there is no rule that would actually tell you to destroy the models that are off the table. Can you quote a rule stating that you are destroyed at the end of your movement you are off the table? That is what is grey... we don't have any rule telling you what to do with models that are unable to make a legal move to get onto the table.

To expand on #2.

It is okay to switch around your deployment, but not to switch around your army list.

When you make the army list, you buy a Dread with a Pod, and a tac squad with a rhino. You also get a Land Raider in a HS slot.

It is okay to put the dread in the pod for game one; yet in game two, but the dread on the table ,and drop the pod empty, or even put the dread in reserves, but not in the pod.

Since the Pod is a dedicated transport, it is *not* okay to start game 3 and put the marines in the pod.
But, you could start the rhino empty, and put the marines in the land raider.


As for the Outflank ruling.
It is grey because one rule says you must do it, and yet another rule says you can't do it.
No matter which rule you follow, you are breaking another rule.

OTOH, since the

One thing to note - if you have any Jump pack troops they CAN move on, as they move *over* the units. LIkewise it is *entirely* within the rules to tankshock the units at the edge - this can help create a gap, etc.

nosferatu1001 wrote:One thing to note - if you have any Jump pack troops they CAN move on, as they move *over* the units. LIkewise it is *entirely* within the rules to tankshock the units at the edge - this can help create a gap, etc.

I'm envisioning that, and of course you're correct on jump troops, but a tank being held off of the table doing a tank shock is making me giggle. I think that's legal, but I wonder what would happen if it was DoG'd and stunned leaving it off or just on the table. Destroyed right?

Again,there are still no rules stating that-you are only destroyed when moving OFF the table.

Some poor bastard would have to hold his tank there like a hand model *ponders*

Thank you to everyone who responded, some good answers in here that helped clear things up a bit. Yakface: Thank you for delineating the house rules solutions to the outflanking interaction, I tend to take the path of least destruction when the rules fail; I think it is a bit harsh that just because the rules have a hole someone's units are destroyed. I will play with "Go back to reserves, try again next turn" unless a tourney organizer forces it any other way; with that said, this shouldn't happen all too often.

About moving around my deployment; I get what i was mixed up on now, its all straightened out; thanks!

Isn't it like the fall back rule? If you are falling back and touch the edge of the table you are removed from play? So if you can't enter play because of being within 1" that would mean you are still touching the table edge and removed from play.

That is all I can find in the rule book. Not shure if there is anything else written in the book.

Davor wrote:Isn't it like the fall back rule? If you are falling back and touch the edge of the table you are removed from play? So if you can't enter play because of being within 1" that would mean you are still touching the table edge and removed from play.

That is all I can find in the rule book. Not shure if there is anything else written in the book.

That doesn't apply. Don't try to stretch the circle to make it a square; if the rule doesn't fit, don't try to make it.

#1) Never officially answered, but GW has stated that they die. This came up way back when the Puppies first got "Behind Enemy Lines", and their answer then at the various GTs and Games Day tourneys was the unit dies. I remember as I was one of the judges. So there actually is some historical support for the INAT decision on this one.

Zain60 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:One thing to note - if you have any Jump pack troops they CAN move on, as they move *over* the units. LIkewise it is *entirely* within the rules to tankshock the units at the edge - this can help create a gap, etc.

I'm envisioning that, and of course you're correct on jump troops, but a tank being held off of the table doing a tank shock is making me giggle. I think that's legal, but I wonder what would happen if it was DoG'd and stunned leaving it off or just on the table. Destroyed right?

No, it wouldn't be, because nothing says that it is. Furthermore, DoG can only be done by the SPECIFIC models in the path of the Tank, so it's more than easy enough to avoid the meltaguns.