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A question came up regarding sweeping advance and the fact that units in terminator armor cannot do it.

What if a Chaos Lord in terminator armor runs with some Berzerkers (in power armor of course) and they rout a unit and make it flee? Can they try to sweeping advance it or does the lords termie armor prevent that (even though the majority of the unit does not have it).

Couldn't find an official ruling on this but I'd assume they can't, because the whole unit can't.

One variation: What if the terminator lord is attached to the unit but never had a chance to get in close combat to potentially hit or get hit (got caught behind the eager berzerkers). Same scenario as above or does this change things?)

Thanks!

-Grorx

We play it that they can't SA, no matter if the Lord engaged in the assault or not. I don't know if there is a hard and fast rule that says yes or no, but we based our decision in our gaming group off the fact that the unit moves as fast as its slowest model. If one model can't sweep, none of them can.

Grorx wrote:A question came up regarding sweeping advance and the fact that units in terminator armor cannot do it.

What if a Chaos Lord in terminator armor runs with some Berzerkers (in power armor of course) and they rout a unit and make it flee? Can they try to sweeping advance it or does the lords termie armor prevent that (even though the majority of the unit does not have it).

Couldn't find an official ruling on this but I'd assume they can't, because the whole unit can't.

One variation: What if the terminator lord is attached to the unit but never had a chance to get in close combat to potentially hit or get hit (got caught behind the eager berzerkers). Same scenario as above or does this change things?)

Thanks!

-Grorx

Under Special Rules, for Independent Characters (Page 48 BRB), it states

When an independent character joins a unit, it might have different special rules from those of the unit. Unless specified in the rule itself, the units special rules are not conferred upon the character, and the characters special rules are not conferred upon the unit. In some cases the IC of the unit may lose their special rules as a result of the character joining the unit.

Same page

"While an independent character is part of a unit, he must obey the usual coherency rules, the combined unit moves and assaults at the speed of the slowest model while they stay together."

Same page

"An independent character may not join or leave a unit during the shooting or assault phase"


There is no direct rule that I could find. But based on these rules for IC's I would say that the unit as a whole cannot SA. I also think this is RAI, however, I am not GW.

The *unit* must SA, however the entire unit cannot SA - only part of it can. This means that you cannot SA as the rules require, so you cannot SA.

It doesnt matter if the Lord took part in the combat or not - at the end of the assault round, before any SA, he "rejoins" the unit, meaning the unit is back to not beign able to SA.

nosferatu1001 wrote:The *unit* must SA, however the entire unit cannot SA - only part of it can. This means that you cannot SA as the rules require, so you cannot SA.

It doesnt matter if the Lord took part in the combat or not - at the end of the assault round, before any SA, he "rejoins" the unit, meaning the unit is back to not beign able to SA.

Lowest common denominator. The intent and rules precedent for this specific case, however, comes from units moving at the speed of the slowest model. If a 'eavy armor warboss joins
meganobz, he is, for all intents and purposes, 'slowed down' to S&P, but he doesn't himself follow the rules for S&P just because the unit does.

I think this case being mentioned is in that same line of thought. As Nos said, because part of the unit cannot, the entire unit cannot.

agreed. they move at the slowest member's pace, which in this case is the termie lord who canNOT sweeping advance.

All correct, however there's really no reason for this to occur very often. The Chaos Lord can simply leave the squad of Berserkers in the movement phase, and then assault the same unit anyway. That way the Berserkers can still Sweeping Advance.

Edit: 200 posts! *dances*

Unbeliever has a point, the only reason I would ever charge a model with terminator in with power armour marines is if it's a chaplain or wolf priest. Cos otherwise you don't get the charge re-rolls. =]

Oshova

SA has nothing to do with movement and hasn't since 3rd edition. The only thing that would prevent the Lord + 'zerkers from doing a SA is that one of them can't and it's "units" that perform SA.

i would like to point out that an ic is a seprate unit in close combat . so while the lord (it's own unit at this point) cant sa the zerkers (a seprate unit) would still be able to

i went back over the rules for ic and assaults and realized the above statement is completly wrong

No one is saying SA is part of movement. It was a corrolary for precedent in 5th, that if one model is too 'slow' or can't do 'something' that a 'unit' performs then the 'unit' can't do it. It is a similar line of thought.

Kharnflakes wrote:i would like to point out that an ic is a seprate unit in close combat . so while the lord (it's own unit at this point) cant sa the zerkers (a seprate unit) would still be able to

i went back over the rules for ic and assaults and realized the above statement is completely wrong

This is wrong. They only count as seperate when working out where your attacks can go, and who can attack. Otherwise your squads don't get fearless from ICs. It states that an IC can't seperate or join a squad in the shooting or assault phase. So therefore, they can't possibly be 2 separate units after charging into a squad, as this would contradict the other rule.

Oshova

i believe i already corrected myself but thanks for pointing out my failure

Ah sorry missed the bit that says edit at the bottom . . . made your post more confusing as I wondered what you were on about lol

And I'm always happy to help where I can =]

Oshova