Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Broadly based on honour guard

Point cost: 300 points
3 Terminator guard
champion:
WS6 BS4 S4 T4 W2 I5 A4 Ld10 Sv2+ 4+
Terminator guard
WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld Sv 2+ 5+
Terminator guardsmen take:
Twin relic blades (guard) Faliasche spear (champion.) storm bolters Iron halo (champion)

May include up to 6 more terminator guards 50 pts and one champion 75 pts

Special rules: Honour or death, Descimate them. fearless, Always attached to commander light, indomitable defenders

one terminator guardsmen may take: (one for each)
Chapter banner - 1+ to attacks, all units within 12" pass all morale tests, +1 to wounds when seeing who won in combat
25 points
Narthecium terminatus 25 points

Any guardsmen may trade his Twin-relic or storm bolter blades for...
Storm shield 5 points
Power fist 15 points
Thunder hammer 20 points
may take:
Iron halo 30 points
Terminatus fufiliatus 35 points

If a terminator keeps his storm bolter, he may take:
hellfire rounds 10 points

The entire squad may take (paid for once)
Special issue ammo ... 100 points

Faliasche spear:
A faliasche spear is a very powerful weapon, not only does it increase it's users strength to 6, it is also a power weapon, and it allows for an extra D3 attacks (too OP?)
Narthecium terminatus:
grants FNP
Terminatus fufiliatus
Any model equipped with this intends to throw himself at his enemies, and if he dies, it doesn't matter. if a model with this dies, he instantly gets injected with a special SM stimulant, while this is an exceptionally powerful tool, it is uncontrolable. every model within 1" takes D3 hits, counted at S4 (unless he takes a relic blade or powerfist). as the model will be dead by the time anyone has a chance to strike back, the model is removed and all hits are resolved as normal.
Twin relic blades: Are two (master crafted?) relic blades. they're lighter then their larger predecessors and allow the guard to strike much faster then he could have otherwise.
All hits are resolved at S6 as a power weapon, giving two extra attacks for having two (specific) CCW s.

Rules
Descimate them. On the champions orders, the entire squad will charge into the closest combat gaining D3 attacks for charging rather then the usual 1. (maybe it should just work like furious charge.)
Always attached to commander. Simple. cannot be detached from their commander. the commander becomes part of the squad, no longer an independent character (until the entire guard squad is dead.)
light. The specially made terminator armour is much lighter then the Mk1 TDA. as such, they can do sweeping advances. additionally, Roll a D3. on a 1, nothing, 2 add 1 to I 3 add 2 to I (too OP/OTT?)
indomitable. These are men borne of steely resolve, they will never go down without a fight. (this rule is removed if the unit takes a terminatus fufiliatus.) Roll a D6, on a 6 they get back up and continue fighting. (kinda like a 6 WBB)
defenders while this squad is attached to a commander, the entire squad will risk it's lives for him. as such, no attacks may be directed at a chaptermaster, or any other independant character that is attached to this squad (including preferred enemy, teilons ability, those kinds of rules.)

Post note:

This squad is insanely expensive, but it's also a viable option in larger games.
Playtested, it fairs very well in close combat, able to do a bit of damage at range.

Realising my fantasy is very powerful, I'm open to suggestions on how to nerf it, and hopefully, I can get a viable option going.

I'm expecting some of the rules to be removed but I'd like to keep the relic blades and the Faliasche spear.

Thoughts? too cheap?

Curious to find out.

They are as cool as the scout dreadnoughts!

I'm hoping thats a good thing.

Sometimes I look at your proposed rules and thing. yeah I like where this is going othe times you hurt my head.

This is a hurt head example, the main reason is that you are trying to fit something in that bears no relation to how SM or the game works resulting into some fairly broken looking rules.

Why not start with
TDA
same stats as basic marine terminator
Stormbolter/Powerfist

Upgrades/Options
Narthecium terninatus - Grant FNP
Upgraded sensors/suspensors - grant sweeping advance (not an option I would allow TDA wearers but hey its an idea).
Company banner/commanders heraldry - +1 attacks to 'guard unit' all units in 12" pass morale tests (possible).
Hellfire rounds
standard weapons swaps
relic blades
faliasche spear - s6 power weapon strikes at I1 double handed (user may weild storm shield).

Rules:
Indominatble - WBB on 6? use old death company type rules (at the end of battle counts as casualty for units under half strength etc)
Shield Wall - Up to two shooting attacks directed at the company commander may be directed to the terminator guards. CC is unaffacted.

Or something along these lines.


Try and start simple then add to it.

So, you want to turn a faliasche spear into a powerfist?

that just threw out the entire idea.

wtf is up with rule changes? shield wall isn't even a rule, TDA isn't a shield. it's a fecking suit

The chapter banner is for the chapter this ENTIRE unit is based on chapter honour guard.
WHAT ARE THE OLD DEATHCOMPANY TYPE RULES.

Don't tell me it makes your head hurt, because everything you've just told me hurts my head.

they're supposed to be an overpowered version of honour guard (who are insanely expensive.)

whats the point of having 3 terminators at a price of 300.

the idea was that they could have an awesome version of relic blades.

I like the entushiasm to improove it, but that idea... made it just a weak terminator squad (an expensive one.)

Captain Solon wrote:So, you want to turn a faliasche spear into a powerfist?

that just threw out the entire idea.

wtf is up with rule changes? shield wall isn't even a rule, TDA isn't a shield. it's a fecking suit

The chapter banner is for the chapter this ENTIRE unit is based on chapter honour guard.
WHAT ARE THE OLD DEATHCOMPANY TYPE RULES.

Don't tell me it makes your head hurt, because everything you've just told me hurts my head.

they're supposed to be an overpowered version of honour guard (who are insanely expensive.)

whats the point of having 3 terminators at a price of 300.

the idea was that they could have an awesome version of relic blades.

I like the entushiasm to improove it, but that idea... made it just a weak terminator squad (an expensive one.)

You have proposed rules I am proposing some changes that In my own games would make them playable.

if you don't want people to look and adapt them then, heres the deal, don't post them in the PD.

As I have pointed out elsewhere, making rules up for the sake of it doesn't mean they are actually workable or that people will play them as is.

Shield Wall is just a name I came up with that fit the ethos of guys in bulky terminator armour shielding their commander, maybe with the bulk of their bodies. Its just a name that I thought fit the role and what the termies would do. like you making names up for your rules that don't exist.

I have no idea what points cost they would be they certainly wouldnt be as expensive if I used my version, but thats just my take on them.

What is the point of "Light" Tactical Dreadnought Armor? It's the fact that it's a honkin' slab of ceramite that makes it so effective. You'd have to completely redesign...well, everything, about Terminator armor to make this even slightly plausible and that's not even actually looking at the special rules.

Take a look at the "Redemptor Terminator Squad" I posted awhile ago. Roughly the same price as this...but nowhere near as powerful.

Mr.Burning has a REALLY good point. your head hurts as hell.
WTF "light" Terminators. the point of themis that they should bee HEAVY.

Nevermind.

I'm afraid I don't like it either.

However i'm better then the trolls so let me offer you a idea.

Why not make something like the scout walker the IG have? but you know give it more guns. Av13 still might make it too tough. But give it like....

Multilasor and a Missile launcher? I mean why would Guardsmen be given space marine equipment?

Heres just some sample stats.

Armoured Assualt Walker

Front 12- Side 12- Rear 10 -BS 3 -S 6- A2

Weapons: Mulitlasor and Missile Launcher, Close Combat wep incorpriating the huge chainsaw thingy on the normal one.

Good, bad? maybe so?

What the hell are you talking about, Shadowbrand?

And for another matter, "Armoured Assault Walkers" are Dreadnoughts and y'know...Terminator Armour.

And Solon was just shooting down other people's ideas for being too overpowered...

Solon, at 100 points a Termie, you've created something far more powerful than something similarly costed (a Vanilla Captain). Once you deck the Captain out with TDA and weapons, you're looking at around 150 points. And that Captain, is going to be *nowhere* near as effective as what you have posted.

Consider that.

So my understanding is this is just a very powerful retinue? Or can it act alone so long as it is composed of 3 terminator guardsman and a champion?

If i am reading this right the basic unit is only composed of 3 plan terminator guardsman?

As for special rules you should specify which rules they receive with or without a champion.

Any guardsmen may trade his Twin-relic or storm bolter blades for...
Storm shield 5 points
Power fist 15 points
Thunder hammer 20 points
may take:
Iron halo 30 points
Terminatus fufiliatus 35 points

So what are they actually equiped with base? twin-relic blades and a storm bolter? And what exactly can they exchange for what you have listed here? IMO twin-relic blades and a storm sheild, is very overpowered.

light. The specially made terminator armour is much lighter then the Mk1 TDA. as such, they can do sweeping advances. additionally, Roll a D3. on a 1, nothing, 2 add 1 to I 3 add 2 to I (too OP/OTT?)

This rule is extremely overpowered. Im sorry but the whole entire purpose of terminator armor is so that they cannot do sweeping advances. Since this is a big point of the "light" terminator armor i would say just allow them to make sweeting advances and leave it at that. Dont give them any modifiers.

Indomitable should be changed so that it is negated by power weapons and double strength, just like feel no pain, then i would say thats perfectly fine.

Change decimate them so its +D3 on the charge. DONT give them furious charge, strength 7 at initiative 5 is way to overpowered.

Twin relic blades: Are two (master crafted?) relic blades. they're lighter then their larger predecessors and allow the guard to strike much faster then he could have otherwise.
All hits are resolved at S6 as a power weapon, giving two extra attacks for having two (specific) CCWs

If they get two attacks they should not be allowed any options such as storm shields or storm bolter. If they can take a storm shield or storm bolter they need to lose the bonus attack for having dual special CCWs.

I really dont understand terminatus fufiliatus and i personally think it should just be thrown out. These guys have more than enough benefits already.


In all honesty, i dont see these ever being used in anything besides Apoc games. Even at 2000 or 2500 points these guys are really expensive. And they are even more expensive when they really are just as vulnerable as any other terminator. They will still die to lasguns or any kind of ranged attacks. They really need a landraider to effectively use them and that bumps them up to a bare minimum of 550 points.

Not a bad idea overall, a super elite terminator unit, but it breaks a lot of fluff and for me to use them. I would need a large, and i mean large, volume of fluff to justify using them at all.

@kan

A sentienel with more dakka. Was esstionally the idea I had. I just can't see Guardsmen wearing anything heavier then carapace armor.

And Terminator armor is not a walker. It's just very bulky power armor. I'd say more akin to heavily armored space suit.

....You are aware that his "Guardsman" idea was referring to the fact that his entire concept is something akin to a Chapter's Honor Guard, right?

Which individual members of would be called "Guardsmen"...

Ohhhhh.......


I thought you know. 'guardsmen'

Yea it could work. This is why I can't dakka after a few drinks.

I'm really not sure WHY this thread has generated so much ill will but I CAN see why it has generated so many MOD ALERTS.

EVERYONE needs to CALM DOWN and STOP the personal attacks.

I really don't like them. Go back look at points costs from books containing all the wargear packed into these models. Example: upgrade relic blade to powerfist for 15 points?? Storm shield costing 10 less than a powerfist? None of your costs make sense. I also don't like any of your special rules. Keep it simple. Also, work on your spelling some.

The idea however is cool! There should be terminator honor guard.

ph34r wrote:I really don't like them. Go back look at points costs from books containing all the wargear packed into these models. Example: upgrade relic blade to powerfist for 15 points?? Storm shield costing 10 less than a powerfist? None of your costs make sense. I also don't like any of your special rules. Keep it simple. Also, work on your spelling some.

The idea however is cool! There should be terminator honor guard.

Simple yet effective way of realizing that?

"Honor Guard members can be upgraded with Terminator Armour for +40 pts/model".

Wham, bam, thank ya ma'am.

40 points would be excessive but yes, that type of upgrade would work well.

40 points is how much the most similar character(a Captain) pays for it, and that's going off a semi-improved statline.

Terminators themselves are 40 pts or so per model, for the same statline as an Honor Guard member.

Thus--I see no issue with +40 pts/Terminator Armour.

Kanluwen wrote:40 points is how much the most similar character(a Captain) pays for it, and that's going off a semi-improved statline.

Terminators themselves are 40 pts or so per model, for the same statline as an Honor Guard member.

Thus--I see no issue with +40 pts/Terminator Armour.

I'd make it a bit less since Honour Guard are already paying for Artificer Armour.

I like Kanluwen's idea, simple...not overpowered...and figuring out the cost is simple. (and also isn't more powerful than a Chapter Master for 100 points per model )

I mean, I designed a unit of Terminators utilizing Master-Crafted Power Swords that granted them +1 Strength at all times and a storm shield that gave them a S3 AP -- attack for every 'Hit' that the enemy makes during Combat, whether or not it's saved against, and the ability to give the squad Litanies of Hate and Honor of the Chapter by upgrading the Sergeant for +50 pts. I priced each Terminator out at ~~58 pts just to be "safe".

My unit came out 10 points LESS than this one.

Although, maybe the issue was I used the Dark Angels Codex?

But I digress. I don't get why "Light" Terminator Armour would even exist. That's like "Heavy" Juggernauts.

Kanluwen wrote:40 points is how much the most similar character(a Captain) pays for it, and that's going off a semi-improved statline.

Terminators themselves are 40 pts or so per model, for the same statline as an Honor Guard member.

Thus--I see no issue with +40 pts/Terminator Armour.

If you see no issue I don't really know what to say. Terminators include in their cost power fists, storm bolters, 2+ saves, and invulnerable saves. Honor guard already have powerful weapons and 2+ saves. The only real change would be the invulnerable.

And really, how many times have you seen someone give a Captain terminator armor. For me it's zero. I would not be surprised if nobody took terminator captains.

Going based off the Space Wolves terminator armor upgrade, it should be +15 points, and that includes a power weapon and storm bolter, and improvement from 3+ to 2+. The upgrade would likely be 10 points, providing teleport, 5+ invuln, and inability to overrun.