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Sprit sword states "...any enemy that suffers one or more unsaved wounds from the spirit sword must roll a d6 and add their LD the wielder does the same. For each point the wielder wins by , his opponent loses an additional wound..."

now the screaming bell/furnace has a LD (-) the WE faq says that the spirit sword "It has no effect on models with no leadership value" so bad grammer aside the WE faq indicated that the spirit sword will have no effect.
But then I read the skaven Faq and in response to the question "What is the leadership value of the Bell/Furnace" the answer is "they have LD 0 (-)"

I am confused. Is a LD 0 the same as not having a LD, or is a zero a value and therefore the spirit sword will work on the bell?

I know that to some it seems like it may be simple, but I want to be sure how this works so no one gets hosed.

Ld(-) is EXACTLy the same as Ld0, it tells you this in the rulebook.

Not having a Ld would be not having the stat listed at all, or something else in place of "-"

Essentially, spirit sword would most likely not effect the bell as your own example: "It has no effect on models with no leadership value"

Just smack the grey seer, or start chopping would at the unit itself.

njpc wrote:Essentially, spirit sword would most likely not effect the bell as your own example: "It has no effect on models with no leadership value"

Just smack the grey seer, or start chopping would at the unit itself.

But it *does* have a Ld value - Ld0. You are *specifically told* that Ld(-) == Ld0, therefore it has a Leadership value.

The skaven FAQ about LD was written specifically do deal with situations like this (and the blade of realities, etc). Treat the LD of the bell as 0. If it has to make a leadership test, it auto-fails. It seems pretty clear that in this situation, the same principle applies (and if I'm reading the rule right, you have the potential to auto-kill bells and furnaces, etc).

I would definitely agree with the others. You are explicitly told the Bell/Furnace profile's "Ld: -" value is to be treated as Leadership score of 0. This is not "doesn't have a leadership score". It is explicity 0.

that was my thinking. I just know that when I use that sword, (on a certain player that likes to run a bell and furnace) I wanted all my ducks in a row for when the complaints start rolling in.

I just wanted to clarify this- what about other things that are "models with no leadership value"? If leadership "-" is the same as "0", then what model has no leadership value?

I would assume that this ruling about "-" = "0" for leadership is only true for the items in the skaven army book that it refers to- not a general ruling for all models with leadership "-" (since the wording of the wood elf FAQ makes it clear that this sword can't hurt something)...

No, it is a ruling in the BRB, where it tells you that characteristics of "-" = 0. The FAQ simply reiterated this.

If you dont have any value listed you have no Ld value. If you have a Ld value of "-" then you *do* have a Ld value - just sa very poor one.

Cool, I see that now- thanks for clarifying.