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My next painting project after I finish some 15mm Napoleonic stuff (check out the recent game "Lasalle". It's great....certainly alot better than "Black Powder".) is a World Eater themed CSM army. To this end, I'm in the final stages of negotiating the purchase of an old Armorcast Cannon of Khorne for use as a "counts as" vindicator. I already use an Armorcast Gobsmasha in my Space ork army as a "counts as" looted wagon. For those who are not familiar with what I'm talking about, here is a link that discusses the pre-Forge World resin models that GW licensed:
http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/Resin_Vehicles_&_Titans

So what do you lot think? Are Armorcast and Epicast models tourny legal? A case could be made that since they were legally authorized by GW at the time of their production that they would be tourny legal. Now if I'm not mistaken the actual wording of the GW rules for their in-store gaming requires figures be "Citadel miniatures" or "Forge World models" they are probably not for official events and instore games at GW locations. However what about tournies and other events at FLGS locations that generally base their rules upon the GW model? Yes, the final answer has to be "it depends on the local organizer and will vary from place to place.". But what do YOU think? Are Armorcast and Epicast models that were authorized by GW at the time of their production tourney legal? Should they be?

TR

GW no
Non GW yes

I have almost the full line of armorcast/epicast ork models and I have never had problems using them at GW events, inside the GW store or at tourneys anywhere. But I also have never had an issue using plasticard scratchbuilt as most TO's treat scratchbuilt parts (especially orks) torward the arbitrary percent of citadel model.

This is the rule of thumb I have seen applied:

If someone sees your model and asks "Where did you get that model/part/weapon/head/whatever? I want to buy one!"

If the answer leads them to a non-GW company to buy a model then your model should be smashed with a hammer and disallowed from play.

Scratch-builds and out of print old GW models do not cause people to rush off and pay money to other companies so in general they are tolerated/ignored/accepted at official events.

I have almost the full line of armorcast/epicast ork models and I have never had problems using them at GW events, inside the GW store or at tourneys anywhere.

I must say that is a suprise.

TR

Generally speaking I'm in favor of the old armorcast and epicast. I've seen and enjoyed the cannon of khorne/vindicator "counts as".

That said, I would not be happy with it if the player were mixing armorcast and GW models for the same unit in the same army if they looked significantly dissimilar. Like using an old armorcast Wave Serpent and a GW one together. They look nothing alike, and that's got a high possibility of causing confusion in any player who's not very familiar with Eldar. Even a regular vindicator and a "counts as" cannon of khorne vindicator seems a bit much, to me. Not quite in the spirit of WYSIWYG.

Trench-Raider wrote:

I have almost the full line of armorcast/epicast ork models and I have never had problems using them at GW events, inside the GW store or at tourneys anywhere.

I must say that is a suprise.

TR

I have explicitly been asked to bring my Armorcast Great Gargant to many GW events at the US battle bunker and in stores. I used an armorcast BW converted to be a weirdboy tower (counts as boomwagon) 2 months ago at an GW sponsored event with no problem. It seems like boomwagons are the only time my epicast pieces would even show up to a tourney as everything else is mainly apocalypse only.

When it comes to that stuff, it seems like they don't mind having it in as the redshirts can talk it up as a piece of gaming history more than anything.

But when I bring out a pirate Nob with a green stuff coat and heads/guns from another model line in a GW store, you would have thought I was exposing 8-year olds to graphic porn.

They should be allowed because they were made under licence from GW for their 40K games. Hardly seems reasonable for GW to allow a company to produce a range of figures and to then later decide they don't count afterall, customers have bought 'legal' models in good faith. They are quite old now so you don't see that many of them around anyway, to deny someone using them would by somewhat petty.

nkelsch wrote:I have almost the full line of armorcast/epicast ork models and I have never had problems using them at GW events, inside the GW store or at tourneys anywhere. But I also have never had an issue using plasticard scratchbuilt as most TO's treat scratchbuilt parts (especially orks) torward the arbitrary percent of citadel model.

This is the rule of thumb I have seen applied:

If someone sees your model and asks "Where did you get that model/part/weapon/head/whatever? I want to buy one!"

If the answer leads them to a non-GW company to buy a model then your model should be smashed with a hammer and disallowed from play.

Scratch-builds and out of print old GW models do not cause people to rush off and pay money to other companies so in general they are tolerated/ignored/accepted at official events.

PLus GW epic is full of those minis. Eldar tanks, titans, and original Imperial titans.

I've never seen anyone care one way or another about anyone using armorcast in GW games, both at FLGS, or at GW stores. Just not a real issue.

It can become one if someone is doing it for some other reason than "this is a cool old model, and I like to use it."

Cannon of Khorne is pretty close in size to a vidicator. NP. But I would have a problem if you told me it was a Defiler. Much lower profile, and a much different look. Gobsmashas are fine for looted wagons, especially if you bought it the big gun and a closed top. I would say they are too small for a battlewagon.

In the end, it will be up to the store owner, tourney organizer, or your opponent.

I wouldn't have a problem with it. Tourney organizers shouldn't either. They are still GW models, just produced under license by another company.

Same way that New Line Cinema is making money from GW's production and selling of LotR stuff.

years ago at a GW store I was told "GW makes a model for that now so you cant use your armorcast tank..." it was an old falcon that converted to a waveserpent. didnt look particularly great, but I got them used for like 5 bucks apiece.

Not that it matters but the Gobsmasher,Stomper and wave serpeant are not Armorcast modesl.

The Armorcast models[Titans and Superheavy] were Optional models that must be agreed on by the opponent before the game.
All Armorcast models were never welcome at Games Day painting contest. I see nothing wrong now, using [smaller models ] as Proxy for existing GW models. Cannon of Khorne as a chaos vindicator.

The models should be simmilar size to GW models. Armorcast/epicast Falcons are much smaller than the plastic kits. But then, I increased the size of my old Landraiders to make them the same size as the new 2ed version.
The Ork battlewagon was modified 1st edition (GW) wagon with the troop area expanded and given a V- twin motor. Armorcast battlewagons should be allowed in all games. Ork and Chaos are known for their modified/kitbashed/looted models. There should never be a problem.
If the turny allows GW plastic baneblades ect. All should be allowed.