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I'm wondering with the recent shifts thanks to ninja Nids and Space Wolves going crazy mech... can the old chaos lash list work? I think that the standard demon princes with lash come up short for two reasons, 1. Ymrgrll Genestealers scare me, same with lots of Space Wolf Long Fang Hunter firepower, and even the razorbacks they pack, kinda make being out in the open a less inviting prospect. 2. Nids got sneaky with more outflanking and the yumrgrrl's, and space wolf being best at mech, it kinda makes the lash less useful, along with the rune priests making it even more useless.
So i was thinking, instead of demon princes, I run sorcerers...and the increase their utility give them plasma pistols, here's the list:

1 Sorcerer w/ Lash & Plasma Pistol
1 Sorcerer w/ Lash & Plasma Pistol

5 Chosen w/ 3 x Melta & 2 x Flamer
1 Rhino w/ Combi-Plasma
5 Chosen w/ 3 x Melta & 2 x Flamer
1 Rhino w/ Combi-Plasma

10 CSM w/ Melta & Flamer, Champ w/ Fist and Combi- Melta
1 Rhino
10 CSM w/ Melta x2, Champ w/ Fist and Combi- Flamer
1 Rhino
10 CSM w/ Melta x2, Champ w/ Fist and Combi- Flamer
1 Rhino

3 Obliterators
3 Obliterators
1 Defiler w/ Heavy Flamer & Extra DCCW

2000pts on the button, 54 models.

The defiler has to be ninja played... its always in reserve, and the only reason I take it is for demon armies, or possibly tying up genestealers until I can devote more resources to them. Its not the strongest unit in the list, and I'm still wondering about the chaos sorcerers... how weak will lash be? how weak will trying to use psychic powers be? Can I make them tzeentch? Does that even make sense. Or should chaos abandon psychic powers entirely and focus on delivering combat or shooting?

In further thought, it might be that outflanking chosen might not have the punch I need anymore... perhaps chaos is down to 10 CSMs max special weapons and hope that lots of cheap bodies is gonna pull me through. Or running terminators, possibly termicide?!

Thoughts?

Sazzlefrats wrote:I'm wondering with the recent shifts thanks to ninja Nids and Space Wolves going crazy mech... can the old chaos lash list work? I think that the standard demon princes with lash come up short for two reasons, 1. Ymrgrll Genestealers scare me, same with lots of Space Wolf Long Fang Hunter firepower, and even the razorbacks they pack, kinda make being out in the open a less inviting prospect. 2. Nids got sneaky with more outflanking and the yumrgrrl's, and space wolf being best at mech, it kinda makes the lash less useful, along with the rune priests making it even more useless.
So i was thinking, instead of demon princes, I run sorcerers...and the increase their utility give them plasma pistols, here's the list:

I think you are on the right track but I believe that Sorcerers are the wrong conclusion to draw.
They are even more reliant on successfully pulling off their power whereas a DP is still a threat due to its being a winged MC. I would either drop the Lash entirely and focus on combat oriented DPs (Warptime or Mark of Khorne work well) or I'd think about Winged Lords with Daemon Weapons (Nurgle, Undivided and Slaanesh being the best I think).

The rest of the list seems viable enough, a little short on scoring units for a 2k game but workable I think. Maybe if you trimmed some of the points here and there, you could fit in another squad.

Dual lash armies came 1st, 2nd and 6th and the recent UK GT, so yes lash armies are still good.

There is a priviso though...

You wont be able to get lash off that often, with the whole mech thing going on. So rather than using sorcs, whos only job is to cast lash, get some lash prines as well, that can actually kill stuff as well.

Youll also probably want IoCG on your CSM squads (since you're not taking any fearless troops) because they will be forced to take Ld tests and they will get broken. Ld10 looks good on paper but it isnt too hard to beat. Ld10 with a reroll is much much better.

Appart from that it looks ok.

IMO, not enough troops for 2000 points, esp. if they are just CSM.

My question is ... where are the Lash Sorcs deployed? There doesn't seem to be a viable spot for them.

The list has some problems with wargear...

The sorcerers will end up taking wounds themselves with those get hot rolls thanks to the plasma pistols. I would change them back to bolt pistols and save the points and invest in a mark of tzeentch for a better invulnerable save.

Chosen are messed up. Got meltas for tanks and flamers for anti infantry - neither weapon can be switched roles. Needs to be all the same weapons.

First CSM unit is messed up for reasons mentioned with the chosen. Others are ok though.

One defiler is a easy target. Drop it and replace with 2 obliterators. Though considering you've got lash whips I thought you'd take advantage of this and get some big blast templates from vindicators?

Also no room for the sorcerers in the rhinos..

Good Points everyone. One glaring flaw, I forgot that I can not squeeze the sorcerers in the rhinos with the 10 man squads. (I've been playing way too much eldar with lots of room inside for 12 models)

I did play a game last night, the sorcerers were mediocre, it was one of those adepticon missions with a million objectives and goals going on. I got a unit in every quarter, captured the main objective and contested another objective... 21pts against my opponent with shrike, librarian 30 terminators, 2 x 10 scouts, and thunderfire cannnon (1850pts, so its my above list minus defiler)

Troops were just barely enough to get the job done, not sure how I'd do against a shooty list though. Lash was good, I couldn't engage in combat obviously, in this case didn't matter if they were sorcerers or princes. And... here's the funny part, when I started the game, I realized I couldn't put the sorcerers in my troop rhino's... It was worth a laugh, so one of my chosen units was forced to deploy on the board, and I stuck both of them there for the first turn.

I think winged lord with demon weapon would be fun, but... I just doesn't ruin my opponents game like lash used to. Maybe I need a shooty lord? Tzeentch... hmmm no, I can't expect to the powers with all the anti-pscher stuff going on. The games become rather difficult!

9-man CSM units are great for a Sorc, basically equalling 9 free wounds. I wouldn't do that more than a single time though, because vanilla CSM loose the ability to get a 2nd special weapon when units are under 10 strong. The 2nd sorc could be replaced by a DP, either a Lash prince or a "205".

Unless you have an abundance of models, don't forget about Plague Marines or Khorne Berserkers. They can do the same jobs effectively, as well as ones vanilla CSM don't do as well.

I also agree with getting another Defiler. 2 x2 Oblits + 1 x2 Defilers is better than 2 x3, 1 x1.

Well, I think that full CSM units with 2 special weapons of the same type mounted in Rhinos is the way to go.

Small Chosen units might not cut it but equipped with meltas and flamers can instantly kill multi-wound models and decimate hordes.

Sorcerers have a hard time in the presence of Nids hive-minded creatures.