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I spent some time looking for things that were unclear with my codex.

I expect this conversation may get quite intense and in depth.

Enjoy?

1) -Does Shrouding extends to Grey Knight Dreadnoughts and Grey Knight vehicles?
2) -Does Shrouding still apply to a Grey Knight unit when it is combined with an Independent Character?
3) -Does the Aegis use the leadership value of an Independent Character that is not a Grey Knight if it is attached to the squad?
4) -Does the Psyker who uses Holocaust have to roll to get hit by it…or does simply being in contact with the template mean that he is not technically partially under it?
5) -Does Word of the Emperor affect Fearless units?
6) -If a model has Auspex as well as a Combi-Weapon, can it fire that combi portion of the weapon before the battle and then again during the battle?
8) -For Sacred Incense, what is a “Chaos model”?
9)-Does an Inquisitor’s or Grey Knight Hero’s retinue count as a separate Kill Point in Kill Point Missions?
10) -Does a single unit of 3 Daemonhosts or 3 Death Cult Assassins count as 3 Kill Points each or a single Kill Point once all 3 are killed?
11) -Can a Daemonhost’s bloodboil affect Daemonhosts besides itself?
12) -Are Daemonhosts subject to the effects of Wargear and abilities that affect deep striking units?
13) -Does a Daemonhost’s timeshift multiply the Daemonhost’s D6 attacks by 2 or does it allow you to roll another D6?
14) -Does the Eversor Assasin count as a Killpoint as he is removed from play via his Bio-Meltdown! rule?
15) -Does Blessings of the Blood Gods protect against a Nemesis Force Weapon?
16) -Does Coteaz’s High Protector of the Formosa Sector rule allow him to purchase a dedicated transport?

ductvader wrote:1) -Does Shrouding extends to Grey Knight Dreadnoughts and Grey Knight vehicles?
2) -Does Shrouding still apply to a Grey Knight unit when it is combined with an Independent Character?
3) -Does the Aegis use the leadership value of an Independent Character that is not a Grey Knight if it is attached to the squad?
4) -Does the Psyker who uses Holocaust have to roll to get hit by it…or does simply being in contact with the template mean that he is not technically partially under it?
5) -Does Word of the Emperor affect Fearless units?
6) -If a model has Auspex as well as a Combi-Weapon, can it fire that combi portion of the weapon before the battle and then again during the battle?
7) -Where should the rules for weapons not summarized in the Daemonhunter’s armory?
8) -For Sacred Incense, what is a “Chaos model”?
9)-Does an Inquisitor’s or Grey Knight Hero’s retinue count as a separate Kill Point in Kill Point Missions?
10) -Does a single unit of 3 Daemonhosts or 3 Death Cult Assassins count as 3 Kill Points each or a single Kill Point once all 3 are killed?
11) -Can a Daemonhost’s bloodboil affect Daemonhosts besides itself?
12) -Are Daemonhosts subject to the effects of Wargear and abilities that affect deep striking units?
13) -Does a Daemonhost’s timeshift multiply the Daemonhost’s D6 attacks by 2 or does it allow you to roll another D6?
14) -Does the Eversor Assasin count as a Killpoint as he is removed from play via his Bio-Meltdown! rule?
15) -Does Blessings of the Blood Gods protect against a Nemesis Force Weapon?
16) -Does Coteaz’s High Protector of the Formosa Sector rule allow him to purchase a dedicated transport?

1) No. Page 20 clearly lines out what a "Grey Knight" model is.
2) No. Page 20 clearly lines out what a "Grey Knight" model is. A Unit of Grey Knights with a Non GK IC is no longer a unit of Grey Knights.
3) No. See Answer #2.
4) No, The model is not hit. In order to be hit, it has to be under the Marker.
5) Yes. Fearless only deals with Morale Checks, which Word of the Empra does not cause.
6) No.
7) In magic banana land. Out of curiosity, what weapons are you referring to?
8) Technically, nothing, since it is never defined what a Chaos Model is. Best bet is to use the INAT FAQ.
9) Yes.
10) 3 Kill Points.
11) Yes.
12) I assume you mean due to the Teleport Power? In general, yes, though each piece of Wargear is different.
13) It doubles the number you roll (so you get either 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, or 12 with a linear probability curve) which opens up a very interesting question that I am going to make a post about.
14) Yes.
15) No.
16) Yes. It says "his retinue may purchase a transport".

For #15, the answer should be "Yes" (Codex: Chaos Space Marines) and "No" (Codex: Chaos Daemons).

The CSM character whose name I cannot accurately reproduce with my keyboard is immune to all psychic powers, whether they cause wounds or not, and the use of a Daemonhunter force weapon is defined as being a psychic power.

Gwar:

You offer up no explanations?

2)It is made up of 2 units...one unit of the character and one unit of grey knights...the grey knights have shrouding but the character doesn't...but in order to shoot the squad you target the grey knight squad...which has shrouding
6)Auspex allows you to shoot your weapon before the battle begins...and combi-weapons say they can be fired "once per battle"
8)Most people have been saying anything from chaos daemons or chaos space marines...but that's no basis
9)why?
10)3 daemonhosts or assassins can be chosen as one choice and are deployed as one choice...there are one unit...their "Independent" rule allows them to act independently as 1 unit
11)why
12)technically the daemonhost is summoned, not deep striking, it just uses the deep strike rule set.
13)it's either (2D6) or (D6x2) attacks
14)why
15)why
16)this transport would be dedicated then?

solkan wrote:For #15, the answer should be "Yes" (Codex: Chaos Space Marines) and "No" (Codex: Chaos Daemons).

The CSM character whose name I cannot accurately reproduce with my keyboard is immune to all psychic powers, whether they cause wounds or not, and the use of a Daemonhunter force weapon is defined as being a psychic power.

Correct. You are thinking of Khârn the Betrayer. The Instant Death power would not work against him. However, using the Nemesis Force Weapon just as a Power Weapon affects Khârn just fine. And again correct for the Chaos Dæmons version, which only grants the Invulnerable save against "force weapons".

ductvader wrote:You offer up no explanations?

Explanation: It's what the rules say.

Alright, then quote me some text.

ductvader wrote:2)It is made up of 2 units...one unit of the character and one unit of grey knights...the grey knights have shrouding but the character doesn't...but in order to shoot the squad you target the grey knight squad...which has shrouding
6)Auspex allows you to shoot your weapon before the battle begins...and combi-weapons say they can be fired "once per battle"
8)Most people have been saying anything from chaos daemons or chaos space marines...but that's no basis
9)why?
10)3 daemonhosts or assassins can be chosen as one choice and are deployed as one choice...there are one unit...their "Independent" rule allows them to act independently as 1 unit
11)why
12)technically the daemonhost is summoned, not deep striking, it just uses the deep strike rule set.
13)it's either (2D6) or (D6x2) attacks
14)why
15)why
16)this transport would be dedicated then?

2) Wrong. You are shooting at a "Unit of Grey Knights and an Attached non-grey knight Independent Character", not a "Unit of Grey Knights".
6) By that logic, Scout moves could never cause Dangerous Terrain tests because it's "before the battle begins".
8) "Most people" are wrong.
9) Read the rules for Retinues in the Rulebook.
10) They are 3 Independent Units. They don't have to stay in coherency. They are 3 units, thus they are 3 Kill Points.
11) Erm... Why do you think it DOESN'T affect other Dæmonhosts?
12) No, technically it Deep Strikes.
13) That's what I said, it's D6x2
14) Read the rules for Kill Points
15) Nemesis Force Weapons are not the same as Force Weapons, the same way a Heavy Bolter is not the same as a Bolter
16) Yes. No. Maybe. It doesn't say either way.

ductvader wrote:Alright, then quote me some text.

No because these are rules queries not clarifications, and if you owned the codex you wouldn't need to, we could offer some page #'s but my Bear Cavalry radar is suffering from and increasing rate of ping.

ChrisCP wrote:

ductvader wrote:Alright, then quote me some text.

No because these are rules queries not clarifications, and if you owned the codex you wouldn't need to, we could offer some page #'s but my Bear Cavalry radar is suffering from and increasing rate of ping.

Screw Bear Cavalry, this is where the money is at.

Just posted that of my FB lol


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Another angle + text

Gwar! wrote:2) Wrong. You are shooting at a "Unit of Grey Knights and an Attached non-grey knight Independent Character", not a "Unit of Grey Knights".

By this logic...any Space marine squad joined by an IC loses it's combat tactics...which means they lose whatever bonus their space marine character is supposed to bestow upon them as they have no combat tactics to trade for the character's special rules.

You might even be able to argue that the Character loses all his special rules as he is no longer a character...but a character + a squad

Maybe this is how it is supposed to be played...but I highly doubt it. I stand firmly in the belief that for the purposes of special rules, you count units separately unless otherwise stated. For all intensive purposes of identifying them as a unit in terms of shooting at or assaulting them...they are of course a complex unit.

Ductvader - erm, no, wrong.

If you join a SM IC to a unit of SM, and they both have CT, then they both keep it as they are *still* a SM unit.

If a non-SM IC joins the unit then it would lose CT, as it is no longer a SM unit.

Language and common sense are against you here. You may be "firmly of the belief", however the rules for oining ICs to units (which state they are part of the unit like a normal member, and only for assault is their an EXCEPTION stating you treat them seperately for resolving and allocating attacks) disagree with you.

nosferatu1001 wrote:the rules for oining ICs to units (which state they are part of the unit like a normal member, and only for assault is their an EXCEPTION stating you treat them seperately for resolving and allocating attacks) disagree with you.

what page is this on?

ductvader wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:the rules for oining ICs to units (which state they are part of the unit like a normal member, and only for assault is their an EXCEPTION stating you treat them seperately for resolving and allocating attacks) disagree with you.

what page is this on?

Pages 49. "Independent characters that have joined a unit are considered part of that unit"

And if I may ask a question of you: Why do you bother asking questions if all you are going to do is question the people trying to help you?

So an independent character that joins a unit of Grey Knights is considered to be part of a Grey Knight unit?

ductvader wrote:So an independent character that joins a unit of Grey Knights is considered to be part of a Grey Knight unit?

No, he is part of THE unit. A "Unit of Grey Knights" is not the same as "A Unit of Grey Knights with an Attached Non-Grey Knight Independent Character".

The rules for Grey Knights VERY CLEARLY state what is a Grey Knight. This is what the rules say, and we have answered your question. Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean it is wrong.

ductvader wrote:

Gwar! wrote:2) Wrong. You are shooting at a "Unit of Grey Knights and an Attached non-grey knight Independent Character", not a "Unit of Grey Knights".

By this logic...any Space marine squad joined by an IC loses it's combat tactics...which means they lose whatever bonus their space marine character is supposed to bestow upon them as they have no combat tactics to trade for the character's special rules.

You might even be able to argue that the Character loses all his special rules as he is no longer a character...but a character + a squad

Maybe this is how it is supposed to be played...but I highly doubt it. I stand firmly in the belief that for the purposes of special rules, you count units separately unless otherwise stated. For all intensive purposes of identifying them as a unit in terms of shooting at or assaulting them...they are of course a complex unit.

See page 48 of the rule book. It states what happens to special rules when independent characters join a unit. Typical it states that unless specified by the special rule the special rule is not granted to the IC. If you take a look at the fearless special rule (Page 75) then you can see an example of how a special rule states whether it is granted to the unit or it is not granted to the unit and vice versa for the IC.

I am not insulting people: I wish to be more informed.

I like to know why people have reached their conclusions so that I might better understand their arguments.


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I am sorry if my intentions are being misread.

Gwar is correct here.


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btw can anyone tell me why my flag is USA when below it states my location as Great Britain?

I wanted to ask about the wording of a rule of Deamonhunters as well, namely this:

In "True Grit" at the end of the rule it says that "this rule applies only to GK wearing Power armour". Is "this rule the "true grit" rule, or the restriction in the preceding sentence about not receiving the "true grit" attack on the charge?

VikingScott wrote:btw can anyone tell me why my flag is USA when below it states my location as Great Britain?

Make a post in Nuts and Bolts or send a PM to a mod to lock it for you.

Alkasyn wrote:I wanted to ask about the wording of a rule of Deamonhunters as well, namely this:

In "True Grit" at the end of the rule it says that "this rule applies only to GK wearing Power armour". Is "this rule the "true grit" rule, or the restriction in the preceding sentence about not receiving the "true grit" attack on the charge?

It refers to the entire True Grit Rule

Thats what I thought, thanks.

This magic banana land you speak of Gwar, any ideas where I can find/buy it ??