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HQ


Archon
- Shadow Field
- Combat Drugs
- Punisher/Tormentor Helm
- Hell Mask
- Plasma Grenades
@ 147 pts.

TROOPS

Raiders ( x 5 )
- Dark Lance
- Raider
- Night Shield
- Horrorfex
@ 125 pts.

Raiders ( x 5 )
- Dark Lance
- Raider
- Night Shield
- Horrorfex
@ 125 pts.

Raiders ( x 5 )
- Dark Lance
- Raider
- Night Shield
- Horrorfex
@ 125 pts.

Raiders ( x 5 )
- Dark Lance
- Raider
- Night Shield
- Horrorfex
@ 125 pts.


ELITES

Wyches ( x 9 )
- Succubus
- Agoniser
- Blaster * 2
- Plasma Grenades
- Wych Weapons
@ 164 pts.

Raider
- Night Shield
@ 70 pts.

Wyches ( x 9 )
- Succubus
- Agoniser
- Blaster * 2
- Plasma Grenades
- Wych Weapons
@ 164 pts.

Raider
- Night Shield
@ 70 pts.

HEAVY SUPPORT

Ravager
- Disintegrator * 3
- Night Shield
@ 140 pts.

Ravager
- Disintegrator * 3
- Night Shield
@ 140 pts.

Ravager
- Disintegrator * 3
- Night Shield
@ 140 pts.

Total: HQ + Troops + Elites + Heavy = 147 + 500 + 468 + 420 = 1535 pts.

I have 500 pts. to work with. First order of business is maxing out the Troops selections, since I only have four Troops choices right now. Choices are:

Something akin to Dakka Raiders:

Warriors ( x 10 )
- Shredder * 2
- Splinter Cannon * 2
@ 120 pts. ( 12 pts. / model )

Raider
- Night Shield
- Horrorfex
@ 75 pts.

@ 195 pts. ea.

More of the same:

Raiders ( x 5 )
- Dark Lance
- Raider
- Night Shield
@ 120 pts.

@ 120 pts. ea.

Or the third option, for max Lances:

Warriors ( x 10 )
- Blaster * 2
- Dark Lance * 2
@ 110 pts. ( 11 pts. / model )

Raider
- Night Shield
@ 70 pts.

@ 180 pts. ea.


I would ideally like to take the same option twice, since I like the concept of pairs. That would leave me room for a secondary HQ, or possibly reducing a Wych squad and adding RJB support for my pimpin' Archon. Thoughts?


20/03/10
- Added 'fexes to Raiders, removed from Ravagers.
- Forgot to add Agonisers to Wych Succubi. Updated.

Maxing out troops is an excellent idea. Unfortunately, you can't take 4 special weapons in a Raider squad. You can take one heavy (S. Cannon or lance) and one special (blaster or shredder). I'd recommend taking blasters as the special weapon, and probably a lance as the heavy. So your third option, but with only 1 lance and blaster, and fewer bodies. You'll need the lances, since you're taking all of your ravagers with dissies.

You've got a lot of night shields running around. They're great on the ravagers, but IMO they're too costly to put on all of your Raiders. I would recommend putting horrorfexes on the Raiders, since they'll be more in the thick of things, and just keeping night shields on the Ravagers.

With the wyches, you'll probably want three squads. You could even do it with the models you've got by having 3 squads of 6.

With the leftover points, you'll probably want another HQ. I like using an Incubi retinue, and you've definitely got the points for it.

afireinside13t wrote:Maxing out troops is an excellent idea. Unfortunately, you can't take 4 special weapons in a Raider squad. You can take one heavy (S. Cannon or lance) and one special (blaster or shredder). I'd recommend taking blasters as the special weapon, and probably a lance as the heavy. So your third option, but with only 1 lance and blaster, and fewer bodies.

For the record, they're listed as Warriors because they're Warriors, not Raiders. Which is why I have a group of ten, and the Raider listed separately.


I will try the third Wych squad. I only have two Wych squads right now for sticking my HQs, but three minmaxed squads would be easy.

Regarding the Night Shields: I could cut them from all my Raiders, but I am almost maxed out on Lances as it is. I don't really have much to put them in, apart from RJBs or kitted-out HQs. RJBs are really only good as speedy Blasters and Archon escort, and I would most certainly take them over an Incubi retinue. However, I guess I could try them out, as PWs are becoming more and more popular in this game.

Uncoordinated wrote:For the record, they're listed as Warriors because they're Warriors, not Raiders. Which is why I have a group of ten, and the Raider listed separately.

The problem is that only Raider squads can take Raiders. Warrior squads don't have the option (it's on p. 10 of the codex).

Uncoordinated wrote:RJBs are really only good as speedy Blasters and Archon escort, and I would most certainly take them over an Incubi retinue. However, I guess I could try them out, as PWs are becoming more and more popular in this game.

Use caution with RJB escorts. If you take a small squad, you'll have to take morale checks if even one gets shot down. If you take a large squad, they get expensive fast. I currently use a squad of three to escort my archon, and then he breaks off turn 2 to beat people up. There's been a couple unfortunate games where one gets shot down and the Archon goes running off the board.

I don't know why you are taking Night Shields on every single Raider. For example your Wyche Raiders, whats the point? you're gonna have to be so close to the enemy to get those Wyches where they need to be that Night Shields are wasted. Instead invest in some slave snares, its only D6 S4 hits with armor saves, but just think of it as more armor saves your opponent has to take. took out a termie once, that was funny!

Also why don't you give your Raider squads some blasters or splinter cannons? adds to the # of shots you get, and its only 10-20 points, worth it imho.

As far as adding more troops, go with either a sniper squad (10x Warriors, 2x DL) or a foot slogging horde (15-20x Warriors, 2x Splinter cannons and 2x shredder/blaster). Either of these will help add a different dynamic to your list, even if its just one unit.

good luck!

go with a double dracon(combat drugs, tormentor helm and punisher and shadow field on one) with incubi retinue's for each and a raider. Very potent combo when combined with wych squads. also put an agoniser on the succubus's.

my personal opinion is at 2k points, you need to have all 6 filled as any less and you probably wont be able to live long enough. for the composition of the raiders i go with the dark lance in the raider squad and leave it at that, as i play my gunboats defensively and a blaster probably wouldnt help. also drop the horrorfex on the ravagers since if your that close to the enemy with your ravager your already screwed. also you dont really need a night shield on anything except the ravagers. as afireinside13t said give the raider squads a horrorfex.

imo you want your raiders as cheap as possible, since you really should only use them for the lance (s).

you dont really need splinter cannons, since in my experience the dissie ravagers are very effective at taking out a horde of orks, gaunts, guardsmen, space marines, anything...etc etc.

afireinside13t wrote:
The problem is that only Raider squads can take Raiders. Warrior squads don't have the option (it's on p. 10 of the codex).

I can take Raiders with my Archon/Dracon HQ choices. Not an issue for me.

afireinside13t wrote:
Use caution with RJB escorts. If you take a small squad, you'll have to take morale checks if even one gets shot down. If you take a large squad, they get expensive fast. I currently use a squad of three to escort my archon, and then he breaks off turn 2 to beat people up. There's been a couple unfortunate games where one gets shot down and the Archon goes running off the board.

I use three as well, but I have been debating between retinue + Raider, rolling them with Wyches, or RJB escort. With my Punisher/THelm, RJB is a very popular choice for me. However, running with Wyches turns them from tarpit to anti-Deathstar squads. It is up in the air, and again, I have quite a bit of points to work with right now.

Billie_Joe wrote:
I don't know why you are taking Night Shields on every single Raider. For example your Wyche Raiders, whats the point? you're gonna have to be so close to the enemy to get those Wyches where they need to be that Night Shields are wasted. Instead invest in some slave snares, its only D6 S4 hits with armor saves, but just think of it as more armor saves your opponent has to take. took out a termie once, that was funny!

I merely use Night Shields because it's a good point sink for me, and because most of my competition relies mainly on spamming Melta, without a large number of long-range weaponry. As you can see, I can easily fit in FoC-maxed Troops, Elites, and HQ with the 500 points I have WITH Night Shields.

Billie_Joe wrote:
Also why don't you give your Raider squads some blasters or splinter cannons? adds to the # of shots you get, and its only 10-20 points, worth it imho.

Billie_Joe wrote:
As far as adding more troops, go with either a sniper squad (10x Warriors, 2x DL) or a foot slogging horde (15-20x Warriors, 2x Splinter cannons and 2x shredder/blaster). Either of these will help add a different dynamic to your list, even if its just one unit.

Splinter Cannons take up spots for Lances, which is why they're not used as often. See my first post for troop choices for the last two slots in reference to Cannons/Snipers/Footsloggers.

Insanityphr33k wrote:go with a double dracon(combat drugs, tormentor helm and punisher and shadow field on one) with incubi retinue's for each and a raider. Very potent combo when combined with wych squads. also put an agoniser on the succubus's.

Why not Archon and Dracon? I'm not seeing the logic in this, because I have quite a few points to spare, and a fully kitted-out Archon already. I already have Agonisers on the Wyches - forgot to stick them in the OP. Updated.

Insanityphr33k wrote:
my personal opinion is at 2k points, you need to have all 6 filled as any less and you probably wont be able to live long enough. for the composition of the raiders i go with the dark lance in the raider squad and leave it at that, as i play my gunboats defensively and a blaster probably wouldnt help. also drop the horrorfex on the ravagers since if your that close to the enemy with your ravager your already screwed. also you dont really need a night shield on anything except the ravagers. as afireinside13t said give the raider squads a horrorfex.

Insanityphr33k wrote:
imo you want your raiders as cheap as possible, since you really should only use them for the lance (s).

I agree with dropping the Ravager 'fexes, and adding them to Raiders. Will do. I am undecided about the Shields though. They've served me well in the past, but we shall see.

Insanityphr33k wrote:
you dont really need splinter cannons, since in my experience the dissie ravagers are very effective at taking out a horde of orks, gaunts, guardsmen, space marines, anything...etc etc.

Noted. I just find that I prefer not wasting Disintegrators on Hordes when they can still attempt to pop transports, and Splinter Cannons are a good choice for following up to Disi spam on Mech lists.

Uncoordinated wrote:

afireinside13t wrote:
The problem is that only Raider squads can take Raiders. Warrior squads don't have the option (it's on p. 10 of the codex).

I can take Raiders with my Archon/Dracon HQ choices. Not an issue for me.

Of course, at 2000 points, you can take both two retinues with Raiders *and* two additional Troop slots with Raiders and have more Raiders. Since Raiders are made out of win (and wet cardboard armor) I do not see why you would desire to bring less Raiders unless you are adverse to win.

I use three as well, but I have been debating between retinue + Raider, rolling them with Wyches, or RJB escort. With my Punisher/THelm, RJB is a very popular choice for me. However, running with Wyches turns them from tarpit to anti-Deathstar squads. It is up in the air, and again, I have quite a bit of points to work with right now.

I rather enjoy the RJB Lord but he does take a bit of care and handling and seems best focused on fun lists rather then sleek competitive lists. At 2000 points I wouldn't bother running your Lord with Wyches simply because with a retinue he can buy you another Raider which I hear some people consider to be made of win. I would say go Retinue lord or RJB Lord. If you want to run with Wyches buy yourself a Wych Dracite and do it as a retinue - they can be made far more then tarpit if they have both the Lord and a Succubus with agoniser in the mix.

I merely use Night Shields because it's a good point sink for me, and because most of my competition relies mainly on spamming Melta, without a large number of long-range weaponry. As you can see, I can easily fit in FoC-maxed Troops, Elites, and HQ with the 500 points I have WITH Night Shields.

I agree with this (especially if your local meta is melta). There is no real reason to avoid Nightshields at 2000.

Insanityphr33k wrote:go with a double dracon(combat drugs, tormentor helm and punisher and shadow field on one) with incubi retinue's for each and a raider. Very potent combo when combined with wych squads. also put an agoniser on the succubus's.

Why not Archon and Dracon? I'm not seeing the logic in this, because I have quite a few points to spare, and a fully kitted-out Archon already. I already have Agonisers on the Wyches - forgot to stick them in the OP. Updated.

Because by the time you buy up double Incubi squads and two additional Raiders you will not be so flush with points as you currently are. This is a different concept of what to do with your list then you are currently using but is not bad. After the lances pop transports Incubi are deadly efficient at killing what was inside them. Plus, by going with the symmetry of double dracons (do you name them Billy and Jimmy?) you give your opponent multiple equally viable targets to contend with - which is the basis of MSL tactics.

Insanityphr33k wrote:I agree with dropping the Ravager 'fexes, and adding them to Raiders. Will do. I am undecided about the Shields though. They've served me well in the past, but we shall see.

Though I like the cut of Insanity's jibe I disagree with his Night Shield assessment. When your army is primarily sniper boats the shields can be very effective for the gunline.

Insanityphr33k wrote:
you dont really need splinter cannons, since in my experience the dissie ravagers are very effective at taking out a horde of orks, gaunts, guardsmen, space marines, anything...etc etc.

Noted. I just find that I prefer not wasting Disintegrators on Hordes when they can still attempt to pop transports, and Splinter Cannons are a good choice for following up to Disi spam on Mech lists.

It really just depends on what type of list you're playing. I like having Gunboats to supplement the anti-horde capabilities of my Ravagers. Other players find them unneeded.

Thor665 wrote:
Of course, at 2000 points, you can take both two retinues with Raiders *and* two additional Troop slots with Raiders and have more Raiders. Since Raiders are made out of win (and wet cardboard armor) I do not see why you would desire to bring less Raiders unless you are adverse to win.

I was under the impression that you could take the Raiders with just the HQ choice of Archon/Dracon. And, I am attempting to maximize my Raiders ( aka flying Lances ), but I know I can't take them with regular Warrior squads. I just find that gunboats are so much more effective if I can drop 2 Blasters/Shredders/Cannons on a squad and force a definite morale before they rapidfire my transport to death with silly Bolters.

Thor665 wrote:
I rather enjoy the RJB Lord but he does take a bit of care and handling and seems best focused on fun lists rather then sleek competitive lists. At 2000 points I wouldn't bother running your Lord with Wyches simply because with a retinue he can buy you another Raider which I hear some people consider to be made of win. I would say go Retinue lord or RJB Lord. If you want to run with Wyches buy yourself a Wych Dracite and do it as a retinue - they can be made far more then tarpit if they have both the Lord and a Succubus with agoniser in the mix.

I like the idea of double Agonisers. Definitely aiming for a second HQ choice here, and a Dracite would be pretty self-sufficient in terms of survival. I wouldn't have to be worried about losing her to focus fire in CC, since she's not massively kitted out like my Archon.

If I can't take a solo Archon + Raider dedi, then I will most likely be going with a retinue. That would alleviate some of my anti-horde pains, since I almost invariably get double Cannons on my Warrior fodder.

Thor665 wrote:
I agree with this (especially if your local meta is melta). There is no real reason to avoid Nightshields at 2000.

Thor665 wrote:
Though I like the cut of Insanity's jibe I disagree with his Night Shield assessment. When your army is primarily sniper boats the shields can be very effective for the gunline.

Great! A similar opinion. It's mostly MEQs and melta I try to avoid. Bolters hate my Raiders. I will look into removing Night Shields from my Wych Raiders simply for sake of finding extra points, but I really do like them on my Raider squads. I am not quite gifted enough with DE to estimate 36" perfectly, and often I find myself dangerous close to within Vindi/MM/AC/Plasma range.

Thor665 wrote:
Because by the time you buy up double Incubi squads and two additional Raiders you will not be so flush with points as you currently are. This is a different concept of what to do with your list then you are currently using but is not bad. After the lances pop transports Incubi are deadly efficient at killing what was inside them. Plus, by going with the symmetry of double dracons (do you name them Billy and Jimmy?) you give your opponent multiple equally viable targets to contend with - which is the basis of MSL tactics.

I see. This makes a lot of sense, and I love the idea of pairs. Sound logic and the idea of equivalent, heavy threat density makes me want to test this very much. However, how do you deal with Shadow Field? I wouldn't be able to choose which one to put it on!

Thor665 wrote:
It really just depends on what type of list you're playing. I like having Gunboats to supplement the anti-horde capabilities of my Ravagers. Other players find them unneeded.

I just find that truly dedicated horde lists pose a problem for me. My Ravagers are working overtime, while my gunboats are next to useless against them. Having a pair of super gunboats ( the 2nd option detailed in my OP ) would really alleviate my problems, since I could easily cluster my gunline and force Ld on every horde squad I point them at, while my gunboats devastate squads on their own. Raiders are just so flimsy though, and sinking a sniper boat's worth of points into even more flimsy Warriors is an issue for me.

Uncoordinated wrote:I was under the impression that you could take the Raiders with just the HQ choice of Archon/Dracon. And, I am attempting to maximize my Raiders ( aka flying Lances ), but I know I can't take them with regular Warrior squads. I just find that gunboats are so much more effective if I can drop 2 Blasters/Shredders/Cannons on a squad and force a definite morale before they rapidfire my transport to death with silly Bolters.

Re-read the Lord entry and look for an option to purchase a Raider. Then go look under the Retinue entry for the same. You can only purchase Raiders in the HQ slot via the Retinue.

If I can't take a solo Archon + Raider dedi, then I will most likely be going with a retinue. That would alleviate some of my anti-horde pains, since I almost invariably get double Cannons on my Warrior fodder.

The Retinue is ideal for filling in any gaps in your army. Incubi are great horde killers. Warriors can be taken with either double lances or S.Cannons depending on your need. Even the Wych Lord allows you to take more Wyches for tarpitting goodness. It's a very adaptable build that at 2000 points is ideal to bring more guns to the board with (or Vect if that's your cup of tea)

I see. This makes a lot of sense, and I love the idea of pairs. Sound logic and the idea of equivalent, heavy threat density makes me want to test this very much. However, how do you deal with Shadow Field? I wouldn't be able to choose which one to put it on!

It depends on the rest of my list. Usually if I take a pair like this I buy a drachite and put the shadow field on the dracon/archon. Sometimes I won't use the field at all to save points since within the retinue they cannot be individually targeted at all. If I was to take two identical squads and opt to bring a shadow field I'd just put it on one of them and use that squad more on squads with hidden p.fists and the ilk that I expect to manage to swing back at me.

I just find that truly dedicated horde lists pose a problem for me. My Ravagers are working overtime, while my gunboats are next to useless against them. Having a pair of super gunboats ( the 2nd option detailed in my OP ) would really alleviate my problems, since I could easily cluster my gunline and force Ld on every horde squad I point them at, while my gunboats devastate squads on their own. Raiders are just so flimsy though, and sinking a sniper boat's worth of points into even more flimsy Warriors is an issue for me.

Dedicated horde lists offer a problem to your basic list because you lack gunboats or Incubi and are only counting on the Ravagers and Wyches to handle the overflow. If two gunboats isn't enough for you, my advice is take more gunboats. My usual list at 1500-1850 contains four gunboats and 2 mini snipers (I also leave one Ravager as triple lance - which is optimal for dealing with targets you definitely want to make sure you toast - like Landraiders with Termies in them and the ilk) and I personally find this mix to be ideal to deal with both mech and horde lists as the Gunboats have a lance and a blaster they can still threaten mech and with the S.Cannon and rapid fire s.rifles they still dull horde forces enough to allow my Incubi/Wyches/Lord to bum rush in and mop the floor. I'm not totally sold on Super Gunboats simply because you have a vulnerable turn where you have two squads outside of Raiders, and also - by definition - a Super Gunboat build leaves a mini sniper squad footslogging (well, footsitting, I suppose) and I tend to be quite loathe to give up mobility like that.

Also, quite frankly, never be scared to lose a Raider. Oftentimes there is no better strategic option then flying up a Raider, turning it broadside, and blocking the passage of enemy infantry/vehicles for a turn. Yeah, they'll blast it out of the sky and kill everyone aboard more then likely, but it buys you another round for your killy stuff to keep working them over. Remember the basic concept of DE is target over saturation - we can afford to lose things on our turn because we can kill an equal number of things on their turn - and we have more things so we always win wars of attrition. It sounds like your Gunboats are being less then optimal because you're trying to sit back 31" to avoid bolter return fire. Posh with this - Gunboats kill stuff at 12" not at 31" Don't shove your boats into range of multiple squads, but pick one and focus fire and wipe it out that turn. Bringing the rapid fire of the s.rifles and (more importantly) the Blaster/Shredder into play will dramatically increase your damage output compared to S.Cannons alone.

Thor665 wrote:
Re-read the Lord entry and look for an option to purchase a Raider. Then go look under the Retinue entry for the same. You can only purchase Raiders in the HQ slot via the Retinue.

Thor665 wrote:
The Retinue is ideal for filling in any gaps in your army. Incubi are great horde killers. Warriors can be taken with either double lances or S.Cannons depending on your need. Even the Wych Lord allows you to take more Wyches for tarpitting goodness.

Ah, I see. Quite unfortunate, but it makes my choice a lot easier. Attempting Incubi retinue for sure. It will most likely be double Dracon, since I love the idea of pairs, and because I might even reduce my Wych squad size and try and fit in a third group. Maximizing Raiders and all that.

Thor665 wrote:
It's a very adaptable build that at 2000 points is ideal to bring more guns to the board with (or Vect if that's your cup of tea)

I like Vect only because he adds more Disintegrators to my list. He doesn't fit well with the theme of DE, which you have stated quite a few times in your posts, and which I agree with completely. But I really like Disintegrators.

Thor665 wrote:
It depends on the rest of my list. Usually if I take a pair like this I buy a drachite and put the shadow field on the dracon/archon. Sometimes I won't use the field at all to save points since within the retinue they cannot be individually targeted at all. If I was to take two identical squads and opt to bring a shadow field I'd just put it on one of them and use that squad more on squads with hidden p.fists and the ilk that I expect to manage to swing back at me.

I didn't realise they couldn't be targeted within a retinue. Huh. I really might just shave off the Field, in that case.

Thor665 wrote:
Dedicated horde lists offer a problem to your basic list because you lack gunboats or Incubi and are only counting on the Ravagers and Wyches to handle the overflow. If two gunboats isn't enough for you, my advice is take more gunboats. My usual list at 1500-1850 contains four gunboats and 2 mini snipers (I also leave one Ravager as triple lance - which is optimal for dealing with targets you definitely want to make sure you toast - like Landraiders with Termies in them and the ilk) and I personally find this mix to be ideal to deal with both mech and horde lists as the Gunboats have a lance and a blaster they can still threaten mech and with the S.Cannon and rapid fire s.rifles they still dull horde forces enough to allow my Incubi/Wyches/Lord to bum rush in and mop the floor. I'm not totally sold on Super Gunboats simply because you have a vulnerable turn where you have two squads outside of Raiders, and also - by definition - a Super Gunboat build leaves a mini sniper squad footslogging (well, footsitting, I suppose) and I tend to be quite loathe to give up mobility like that.

I agree that Incubi definitely clean up with mobs. Playing less conservatively with my Raiders would allow me a little more leeway with horde lists, but I feel that reduces the effectiveness of my dearly bought Shields. What is your take on Amp + Haem/Destructor, or Snares?

Thor665 wrote:
Also, quite frankly, never be scared to lose a Raider. Oftentimes there is no better strategic option then flying up a Raider, turning it broadside, and blocking the passage of enemy infantry/vehicles for a turn. Yeah, they'll blast it out of the sky and kill everyone aboard more then likely, but it buys you another round for your killy stuff to keep working them over. Remember the basic concept of DE is target over saturation - we can afford to lose things on our turn because we can kill an equal number of things on their turn - and we have more things so we always win wars of attrition. It sounds like your Gunboats are being less then optimal because you're trying to sit back 31" to avoid bolter return fire. Posh with this - Gunboats kill stuff at 12" not at 31" Don't shove your boats into range of multiple squads, but pick one and focus fire and wipe it out that turn. Bringing the rapid fire of the s.rifles and (more importantly) the Blaster/Shredder into play will dramatically increase your damage output compared to S.Cannons alone.

I do use my transports to block quite often. They are mostly Wych Raiders, however, since I play conservatively with my snipers. I need to use my Rifles more, I suppose. Blasters I often underestimate. I really do enjoy the fact that I can get a 13 pt. Str 8 Ap 2 weapon as a troop choice, and I should definitely alter my list and strategy accordingly.

Uncoordinated wrote:I didn't realise they couldn't be targeted within a retinue. Huh. I really might just shave off the Field, in that case.

Yeah, we still have the old-style retinue where the IC cannot be independently targeted within it (nor can he separate from it however, so if you buy Incubi that dracon is there till the Incubi are dead.)

Playing less conservatively with my Raiders would allow me a little more leeway with horde lists, but I feel that reduces the effectiveness of my dearly bought Shields. What is your take on Amp + Haem/Destructor, or Snares?

Shields are there to protect Ravagers and mini sniper boats. They also protect you turn 1-2 when some weapons of the enemy are at range and want to blow up stuff (like precious Incubi Raiders). After that they are mostly there just to maybe weaken melta or keep you out of rapid fire range - that's it.

Torture Amps and Haemonculi is basic tank shock/flamer games. Personally I don't like trying to tank shock with an AV 10 vehicle as many units can death or glory you pretty easily. It's not a bad tactic however.
Snares can be pretty good, but only if you're running a very assault/short range army list and only if you take snares on pretty much everything. d6 Str 4 isn't really worth it unless you're making him do the saves semi-constantly.