Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I will be playing a Tau player this coming Sunday, and a talented one at that. For the last few weeks he has been studying my tactics, how I assault and how I choose my forces depending on the enemy. I have yet to play his army, let alone see him play, but he has finally challenged me to a game and I want to be ready.

Here are the details I know so far thanks to some re-con work from my friends:

He almost never uses Ethereal, tending to favor the crisis suit HQ
He tends to max out on shield drones for any unit that can take them
Vespids are his baiting unit
Sniper drones are used
Piranhas are used for baiting tactics, as well as a quick assault barrier
There will be at least 1 hammerhead, though after seeing how much I favor my LR spam (more on that in a bit) he may take more, or a team of broadsides
He uses the missiles that ignore LoS, as well as the 12" cover save upgrade and the assault deterrent upgrade for his tanks (hits on a 4+ auto wound?)
He lives by the maker light
Stealth suits will be used.
The game will be random based on the rule books D3 system.

Now it will be a 2500 point game, so obviously it gives us both a lot to play with, however, he has bought his models around a certain play style, and so has limited options.
I however, have been playing the same army for 10 years and have almost any kind of list available to me.

Iv been going back and forth between Dark Angels all Deathwing list, or a vanilla marines list with shrike leading the way.

With the DW I was going to just push through any line he had set up and go from there, going 3 termies in 3 LR, with 2 dropping dreads and an inquisitor with calidus assassin to take out the invurn units. I can fit about 2-3 Speeders with melta in as well with a unit of assault marines. the word in your ear may also screw up his first turn just in case he goes first.

On the vanilla side I was going shrike infiltrating with a unit of vet assault marines to jump over any bubble wrap he may have set up, I would then have a single squad of termies combat squadded into two LR (one redeemer one crusader) with a librarian with null zone as the spear head, with 2 dropping dreads, a dropping vet assault squad (no packs), a few speeders with meltas, and the rest small tac squads in razorbacks.

I tried in both armies to find a way around the invurn save, as well as get in his face quickly to minimize losses from his guns, especially the hammerhead.
I would prefer going DW as they are my personal fav army, but when it comes down to it both armies will work.

Could anyone enlighten me as to how I should go about this game? I havnt played Tau in years.

My advice to you is based upon if you want win at al costs or have a fun game. If you want to win at all costs take the shrike list:

If you go first you win.

Land Raider Crusader with 6 assualt terminators. Deploy in middle of battle field at max deployment. Move 12 inches, get out at the 2 inches with your 1 1/2 inch base fleet of foot for d6 inches charge for 6 inches giving you a grand total of 22 1/2-27 1/2 threat range. If you are set up in pitched battle you can reach half way into his deployment zone on first turn.

Take 2 of these to ensure a victory. Use smoke if he deploys too far back on your first turn and you have a good shot of getting him on your second.

Not really fun for you or your opponent but very effective. If you want to make it a fun game take a fluffy shrike list, outflank shrike with assualt troops to get him a charge off the side, take some assualt termies and deep strike them into his lines.

As much Id like this to be a fun game, the guy has been pretty cocky at the store as well as the stores forums, so the fun may have to come later when Iv knocked him down a peg.

Should I still infiltrate shrike with the assault squad or try for the outflank? Im down with DS as long as they dont get shot up the turn they come in.

As a Tau player, I'll tell you what gives me fits:

Lots of Marines. Don't spend your points on Land Raiders, or even Terminators; you want lots and lots of bodies to soak up fire. If he's shooting his Seeker Missiles, he's not using that Markerlight hit to improve his BS (Yay!) or lower a cover save (Yay!). Seeker Missiles are also 10 points a shot; not the most effective use of points. Putting most of your army into Rhinos to get close will help as well.

Sniper Drones are a hassle, but they're way overpriced. If he's careless, they'll be near another unit, and multicharging them along with something else works really well. Actually, multicharges in general are a fantastic way to run the Tau off of the board.

If you can force him into a corner so that he can't maneuver, all the better. The Tau are a "shoot and scoot" army.

Thunderfire Cannons also work well as a disruption unit, especially if you can get it into good cover. I know that I don't like 'em.

AV10 vehicles die too quickly to S5 fire; leave the Land Speeders at home.

Jump Pack troops are a terrific bet here; they're fast enough to catch the Battlesuits and you can't kill their ride. Two good-sized squads of these (with Powerfist to Instant Death the suits) and Meltaguns will do quite well for you. Don't forget that the Tau have NO psychic defense, so use that to your advantage as well.

Good luck!

He uses stealth suits and vespids? really? huh.

Does he use kroot in any meaningful capacity? if not, you can end him pretty easily with a melta-heavy drop pod list, or a outflank/alpha strike list.

Looking at the two lists you have planned, the vanilla one looks better, frankly. a few notes: you really don't need to go crazy on close combat weapons - you'll want power weapons of course, to eat suits, but really, if you charge his stuff first, you will almost always win combat; tau are just that bad in CC.

as far as speeders go, I still think you should use them - yes, s5 pulse rifles will kill them. but guess what? if he has pulse rifles out in the open, you have big, easy targets to go after, and if he's directing fire at them, he's not directing it at your more dangerous fire support.

Try not to use up shooting on his bubblewrap unless you have flamers or you are really sure you can torrent it out it's cover. if you CAN kill it, great! go for it, it will get you closer to his army's core faster. otherwise, you want to hit the "core" of his army...see below.

Remember, the core of a tau army is pathfinders, suits, broadsides. if he loses them, he's toast. everything else is just there to "clean up", block movement, or slow you down. they are first priority when it comes to shooting.

oh, and by the way - just BECAUSE you can assault him, doesn't mean you should. he is likely counting on you to do that. I've seen marines shoot themselves in the foot by doing stupid assaults on expendable units, only to get shot to pieces in the next shooting phase.

I'm rooting for you, mainly so he'll learn not to use vespids, lol.

He apparently has used kroots in the past, but never krootox or hounds. Im kind of nervous about the plasma guns though, are they battle suit only?

The tips given though have been most useful though, and will take them all into the grander scheme of things.

Yes, vehicles will have their cover saves removed by marker lights, then Str 10 Ap1 shots will hit you and hurt you.

Go with the deep striking pods or teleporting so there is only one round of shooting.

I might even say take Kosorro Khan so everything can outflank. You could even double up with Tigurius in a list this big and get awesome outflanking reserve rolls for assault squads.

This has the potential to absolutely destroy him, or fall flat on its face...

This is 115 points short of 2500 and it has tons of big trouble from fast outflanking units that can reroll their reserves. Of course you may not have 30 Jump Pack Guys or 22 Bikes, but well here it is maybe it'll help.
You could try to trim it down and fit two outflanking predators in there too.



HQ
Khan
Moon Drakan

Tigurius

Elites
Sternguard (5)
Heavy Flamer x2
Drop Pod

Sternguard (5)
Heavy Flamer x2
Drop Pod

Sternguard (5)
Heavy Flamer x2
Drop Pod

Troops
Space Marine Bikes (7)
Meltagun x2
Powerfist

Space Marine Bikes (7)
Meltagun x2
Powerfist

Space Marine Bikes (7)
Meltagun x2
Powerfist

Fast Attack
Assault Squad (10)
Flamers x2
Powerfist

Assault Squad (10)
Flamers x2
Powerfist

Assault Squad (10)
Flamers x2
Powerfist

I've been playing against a few tau players the last few weeks at my store and as stated above lots of marines give them problem. In 2000 pts. I take three full tac. squads in rhinos, then assault termies in a LR, regular termies and an assault squad(comes in late). The players Ive faced just get overwhelmed by bodies. By no means are you gonna run a horde army with marines but the more stuff I've had the less room they can run. If a crisis team comes close to a rhino I just get out and chew him up. The way I look at it is that basic marines are pretty friggin' durable and the only thing that is gonna take away your armor save is a plasma rifle, as the railguns have vehicle priority and fusion guns mean hes way to close and hes gonna get assaulted.

I would take the vanilla list as it gives more bodies and can catch his suits. The guys here at Dakka have taught me something called unit redundancy(works amazing), give him to many targets that offer the same threat and he cant take them all out before hes overwhelmed. And once you tie up his crisis teams in cc he loses his core as everything is usually built around them. Has worked for me in the last 4 games against tau.

I have been playing against Tau for quite a while now and my best advice to give you is an orky approach lots of bodies getting close fast. It is not worth the points sinking in land raiders or any high cost vehicle and or small group unit. Tau excel on hitting you and negating your ability to defend against their shots. I usually go up against a large amounts of broadsides, crisis suits, and devilfish filled with fire warriors. They are fairly mobile (not super quick like eldar) but you can get the jump on them rather easily. I would say get quite a few drop pods and some fill them up with Tactical squads (10 man, 1 melta, 1 combi-melta, powerfist) these groups can get the jump on their broadsides which are only T4 2 wound models which the melta's should insta-kill. Getting 1 or 2 broadsides down will cause a leadership check and usually they are deployed rather close to a board edge so some of the time they run off with their LD8. These groups are also great for any transports, tanks, and pretty effective against crisis suit teams. One of the biggest flaws in how crisis suits work is that drones count towards taking a morale check at the 25% loss mark. I've seen crisis suits run off the board or become trapped after losing their drones.

If you shake up his back line you will throw off most of the tactics he will use to counter most assaults. You can then charge up with a good amount of rhino's, razorback's (I like the LAS / TL PG variant) with SM bodies in them or bikers do very well with a first turn turbo-boost. Assault Squads with Jump Packs do well also just make sure you have good spacing on them if he is running some template weapons and avoid their gun lines (30" range can be hard depending on amount of terrain) For your back line groups of devastator squads will do you well as they aren't as vulnerable to being destroyed by tau big guns like predators. But, I also really enjoy hiding whirlwinds at the back and throwing blasts that ignore cover.

You mainly want enough points spread where he can't focus multiple units on one squad and you being crippled by the loss of it. When you get into close combat you really only need 1-power weapon against most squads because like people mentioned before they are AS BAD in CC as the stereotype has them to be. I've had fire warriors squad shoot me down to 1 guy equipped with a power weapon and him alone completely wiping them out next turn in CC. Giving your units fleet with Shrike will help you out a lot for getting the 2nd wave of your force crashing into their troops for CC. Getting some good low AP shots on the crisis suits and then charging them should deal with them really fast.

Hopefully this helps you out some and post us a good battle report

Realistically, at 2500 points, marines should easily outshoot Tau. I'd gear up for a very shooty-heavy force. Target his few decent ranged guns and reserve a scoring unit or two in rhino. After two turns of massed fire, all of his railgun platforms should be gone. Your objective grabbers come in, nothing left to threaten them, and your shooty stuff shifts to clearing what's left.

Say, a couple sternguard squads drop podding with librarians attached with null-zone, a bunch of cheap tac squads with lascannon razorbacks and some missile spamming devestator squads.

TEMPLARS

just get into combat

Sorry that i can't help as i'm just an inexperienced tau player who knows little of marine tactics but can i request you put up the battle report for this?

It sounds like it'll be an intense game

Salamanders. You do what Tau do but Better. Meltaguns make sure disruption pods are not an issue.

Scouts in a land speeder storm can make a 1st turn assault on a unit of pathfinders. Killing parthfinders on turn 1 kills Tau battle plans. If you don't get the 1st turn outflank with them and hunt down pathfinders later. Give the scouts combat blades, and their sergeant a power fist and combi melta in case a tank presents a tempting target.

Tau have serious issues at 2500 points. Their only scoring units are fire warriors and kroot, and both are squishy. Also the larger a game gets the shorter the life expectancy of markerlight units becomes.

I know alot of you wanted to know how this game went.

I decided to go with the Khan-Tig army and outflank everything. Well it worked, even if my melta dread kept mishapping. By the end of turn 3 I was half way through his army and every unit (except the lazy dread who was walking across the table) was engaged in close combat. I went for a more power weapon and survivability assault as opposed to power fists everywhere. And that I believe helped me in the long run as, especially in the 2nd turn had I K.O.ed the HQ battle suit that turn, my vet jumpers would have been standing in front of the broadsides which nothing to protect them.

I did take a skimmer with melta, and it payed off, as it took out the hammer head when it came out, so it was worth it, even if it died to a seeker missile that same turn. Other than that, I had a few combat squads pushed down to 1 or two guys so that gave him a grand total of about 6 points. I came out on top with 12. It was a good game, and I thank you all for the tactics and suggestions.

Oh and he did not use his vespid this game, he used a single kroot choice one pathfinder squad, and 2 battle suit squads. It was obvious he kitted out his army to take down alot of tanks, as he had his broadsides bubbled wrapped with kroot, a piranha team, and his HQ. I though it was weird he brought in his pathfinders from reserve as well.

Keeping pathfinders in reserve is the 1 sure way to keep pathfinders alive for a turn or 2 as they can't die in reserve

It's a good idea if the Tau player is playing against someone who is not outflanking with their own reserves. It allows the Tau player to outflank with their pathfinders and place them in a safe location where they can get a turn or 2 of markerlights off before they die. The tactic can also force a large scale redirection of units towards the pathfinders.

Most likely he will be using a stealth marker team if he is using stealth suits and loves markerlights. Against these you need to get up close and personal and quickly. You always have night fighting against them and on the charge you act like you are assaulting into cover. Assault with a large squad (10 tactical marines). A fully loaded SMT will be a point sink but not that big of deal in 2500 points.

If I were him I'd be running 3 broadsides in a team with ASS and shield drones and 2 Railheads. Add in Pirhanas with some pathfinder squads with rail rifles. Pirhanas with Seeker missiles make for quick rear armor shots against vehicles in turn 1-2. An easy tactic is hit the transport with 2 seeker missiles from behind then fusion it if it still has not died. Follow up with squashing the contents under a submunition shot (S6 AP4).

With Tau, 2 Railheads give you pie plates all over the place. Make sure you spread out your troops so you cannot get pie plated. If he runs Kroot they will most likely outflank or create a speed bump in front of his firing line.

If you drop meltas within 12" of hammerheads or devilfish you negate the auto - cover save. Drop pods with meltas effectively negate the use of hammerheads for at least 1 turn. If you get lucky you'll destroy it.

Disrupt his tactics and take out the troops. Troops are easily killed. Most Tau stay away from firewarriors although they are very effective at killing tactical marines if brought en masse. A Tactical horde or one with jump packs will cause problems for Tau.

combatmedic wrote:I know alot of you wanted to know how this game went.

I decided to go with the Khan-Tig army and outflank everything. Well it worked, even if my melta dread kept mishapping. By the end of turn 3 I was half way through his army and every unit (except the lazy dread who was walking across the table) was engaged in close combat. I went for a more power weapon and survivability assault as opposed to power fists everywhere. And that I believe helped me in the long run as, especially in the 2nd turn had I K.O.ed the HQ battle suit that turn, my vet jumpers would have been standing in front of the broadsides which nothing to protect them.

I did take a skimmer with melta, and it payed off, as it took out the hammer head when it came out, so it was worth it, even if it died to a seeker missile that same turn. Other than that, I had a few combat squads pushed down to 1 or two guys so that gave him a grand total of about 6 points. I came out on top with 12. It was a good game, and I thank you all for the tactics and suggestions.

Oh and he did not use his vespid this game, he used a single kroot choice one pathfinder squad, and 2 battle suit squads. It was obvious he kitted out his army to take down alot of tanks, as he had his broadsides bubbled wrapped with kroot, a piranha team, and his HQ. I though it was weird he brought in his pathfinders from reserve as well.

only 2 battlesuit squads at 2500? what was he dumping his points into? devilfish?

anyways, glad to have helped you out.

schadenfreude wrote:Keeping pathfinders in reserve is the 1 sure way to keep pathfinders alive for a turn or 2 as they can't die in reserve

It's a good idea if the Tau player is playing against someone who is not outflanking with their own reserves. It allows the Tau player to outflank with their pathfinders and place them in a safe location where they can get a turn or 2 of markerlights off before they die. The tactic can also force a large scale redirection of units towards the pathfinders.

Actually throwing Pathfinders in a ruin or area terrain is the best way. Outflanking prevents you from being able to actually use the pathfinders since markerlights are heavy. It doesn't really make sense as to why he did this since he lost a turn of shooting that required him to place his pathfinder into position. A good idea but doesn't really execute that well.

He only took, as far as I remember, 2 devilfish besides the one the pathfinders took in from reserve. He got some shots off from them at my bikes, but didnt do any damage, they promptly chewed them up in CC. He took ALOT of seeks.

Im not to familiar with the Tau FOC, but I know I saw two battle suit squads of 3 each, and only 1 HQ battle suit. No idea where he spent his points... He went drone crazy however, as I expected, and had to jump pack over those to get to the juicy units. The normal tacticals took care of them.

FYI I never assaulted a tank, only because I knew he had bought those self defense things for assault, as well as the auto cover for 12", but those never caused a problem.

Well, I wished he posted here so we could critique his list! lol!

Really though, he really ought to have WAY more at 2.5.

his 2500 point list sounded a bit weak. Too much of his points spent into upgrades it sounds like. Personally i wouldn't have used pathfinders in a game like that. A stealth marker team is only a bit more points and much more survivable.

daemon wrote:his 2500 point list sounded a bit weak. Too much of his points spent into upgrades it sounds like. Personally i wouldn't have used pathfinders in a game like that. A stealth marker team is only a bit more points and much more survivable.

Well, truthfully, I'm not too surprised. A lot of people really don't know how to run or build tau lists, let alone how to make tau lists that can survive out flank /drop pod shenanigans.

rogueeyes wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:Keeping pathfinders in reserve is the 1 sure way to keep pathfinders alive for a turn or 2 as they can't die in reserve

It's a good idea if the Tau player is playing against someone who is not outflanking with their own reserves. It allows the Tau player to outflank with their pathfinders and place them in a safe location where they can get a turn or 2 of markerlights off before they die. The tactic can also force a large scale redirection of units towards the pathfinders.

Actually throwing Pathfinders in a ruin or area terrain is the best way. Outflanking prevents you from being able to actually use the pathfinders since markerlights are heavy. It doesn't really make sense as to why he did this since he lost a turn of shooting that required him to place his pathfinder into position. A good idea but doesn't really execute that well.

Outflanking pathfinders means they can't shoot on turn 1, or turn 2 if they come in on turn 2, or turn 3 if they don't come in until turn 3. With that in mind it seems insane to outflank pathfinders, but there is a method to the madness.

Drop pod + Dreadnought with a Heavy flamer= Pathfinders die on turn 1
Land Speeder Storm= Pathfinders dead on turn 1

The lifespan of a pathfinder is painfully short, even more so if the Tau player doesn't go 1st.

Experienced Tau players will know if their enemy's army list will be able to destroy their pathfinders on the 1st turn.
Inexperienced Tau players will remain in denial, and lie to themselves until they actually believe their pathfinders will give them 5 turns of marker lights.

Outflanking pathfinders is far from ideal, but it's a lot better than pathfinders getting killed on turn 1 before they ever get a chance to fire a single marker light.