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OK, I'm firmly set on Toxin Sacs for my Hormagaunts. They don't really need the +1 to I they'd get from Ad. Glands, so the effect on MEQ is basically the same. Plus Toxin Sacs work when you get assaulted too. There's also the major benefit against super tough stuff like Wraithlords and C'Tan as you will only ever have to roll 4+ to wound.

Anybody care to argue the point before I glue them on?

If you play against a low-toughness army, then adrenal would probably be the better choice. Overall though, I prefer toxin sacs. Glue them on!

Adrenal glands allow you to glance vehicles. I find I have move problems with vehicles than with high toughness enemies.

Warriors with adrenal glands are the second most cost effective means of cracking AV 10 in the Tyranid army behind genestealers if that means anything to you.

From an efficiency standpoint, toxic sacks or nothing are arguably the best choices with hormagaunts.
Toxic Gaunts = ~48 points per MEQ kill but sacrifice survivability through numbers.
Naked Gaunts = ~54 points per MEQ kill but are a bit more survivable through numbers.
The added initiative on the charge is moot against most opponents and the added strength is only effective for one round making Adrenal gland gaunts ~48 points per MEQ kill on the charge, but dropps sharply to ~72 points per MEQ kill after the charge – though you can glance vehicles but it’s unlikely utilize gaunts in that roll unless extremely desperate.

The glance against vehicles didn't really occur to me, but I will have Zoeys for anti-tank anyway. Toxin sacs it is I think

...and aside from anything else, 'backpack' ad. glands look silly.

Here's the question: What do you want them to do? Mine attack infantry and that's it. Even with the ability to glance vehicles, that only works once. Then it either drives off or they get assaulted and are back to S3. Mine attack small squads of marines or run at static lines to attract attention. They never go after vehicles, period. I have many other things to do that, and typically the babysitter who's keeping them in synapse can take on the armour. With my poisoned attacks I can actually put up a decent fight against marines or single monstrous creatures. They're fast and can turn on a flank quickly, so basically they're my troubleshooters. Is that what you want them to do?

And, just as importantly, is that what they END up doing... My vote is still for the toxin because paying 2 points for something I'll only be able to use once, maybe twice, isn't enough. Something that can wound marines on 4's all the time seems to work out better for me.

Excellent, I like the sound of troubleshooting Hormagaunts. I think we're all sold on toxin sacs.

I personally think it's a tougher choice than youre making it out to be. Transports are the bugs biggest issue in my opinion, and being able to glance most of them with hormagaunts is a pretty big benefit. Toxin sacs are pretty situational and not THAT much better than adrenal glands against most enemies.

Im not saying one or the other, but I dont think its quite black and white, even if you have zoans.

Since hormagaunts don't ride in transports, and aren't jump infantry or bikes or beasts, they aren't really in charge of whether or not they get to charge.

If your opponent wants to CC them, they'll likely be doing the charging, even with the good run and fleet.

toxin sacs is more consistently useful for hormagaunts, even considering the preponderance of transports in 40k. Furious charge isn't a permanent solution to vehicles, and it will likely end with you in base to base flamer-bait formation after a failed charge...

I never run naked hormagaunts, because i want them to actually do something... I put toxin sacs on first, and then only consider furious charge on gaunts already holding toxin sacs...

glue them on.

Flashman wrote:Excellent, I like the sound of troubleshooting Hormagaunts. I think we're all sold on toxin sacs.

Very glad I could be of help! Let me know how you use them also... I'm still trying to find the right spot for them in my swarm heavy list.

The toxin sacs are now attached! Cheers for all the comments and by all means continue to discuss even though I have now burnt this particular bridge