Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

My 40k rival, and I use the word in the 80's movie protagonist/antagonist vernacular, has challenged me. As I pride myself on the ability to gather intelligence, I have found out he has reputedly pulled a 2000 point tyranid list from the internet to use against me because he wants to embarass me in front our entire gaming group in a 1 on 1. This was not intimidating to me except that my source also states 2 things:

1) This list apparently has been banned in tournaments.

2) My source can't remember what was on the list.

Since I have extremely little experience facing the 'nids, I would like to ask the dakka brain trust to help me. I have 3 questions on tacticts and/or references.

1) Are there any good anti Tyranid tactics I can employ? If generalities should be avoided where are some anti Tyranid articles to be found for the new codex?

2) Where can I find a list of lists that have been banned in Games Workshop Tournaments? My google skills have failed me on this one people, and I can't look at one more chibi tyranid picture that was mislabeled or my head will explode.

3) Is it dishonorable to look up and use an anti Tyranid list built JUST to beat him? If not, where could one be located?

I appreciate any and all help on this one people, as my rival is the kind of man who cannot win or lose gracefully and I while the honor of the immortal emperor is all well and good, this is a victory that carries with it bragging rights heavier than any before it.

Then you are playing for the wrong reasons.

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:Then you are playing for the wrong reasons.

QFT

Ok, in retrospect I was a bit harsh. I'll help you out here a bit:

Assault terminators with SS. Thunderhamers I'm not crazy about, but you have to take them to get the Storm Shields. The 3++ save they grant is a high advantage over tyranids, which have very few invul saves themselves. Add in 2+ armor and they'll tackle just about any assaulty unit thrown at them.

Land Raiders. Tyranids are very poor against AV 14. The best counters they have for it are monstrous creatures in CC and Zoanthrope Warp Lances. That brings me to my next point....

Librarians with Psychic hoods (or DH inquisitors with psychic hoods and mystics if you can get them) are great for nullifying the myriad of psychic powers that the nids rely on, such as the armor-defeating warp lance mentioned above. The inquisitor is preferable, because it has no limit to its range. Nerf the psychic powers before they start, and you'll be much better off. If you can get the DH =I= with mystics, they also are good defense against deepstriking monsters by letting you get free shots in at them.

There are plenty of other tactics, but those are just a couple that worked for me.

There is no such thing as a list "banned from tournaments". There is no particular Tyranid list that is OMGUBERCHEEZEUNBEATABLE. About the most annoying thing you can expect is the Doom of Malawhatever, if your gaming group is as clueless as the douchenozzles that wrote the INAT FAQ, and rules it can affect models in transports, unlike every other power or ability or weapon in the entire game.

Even then, just bring a DH Inquisitor with mystics and some plasma guardians, and just blast it to bits when it shows up.

Thanks for the tips guys, I guess I AM playing for the wrong reasons. A contest of rivals from the real world should not spill onto the 6x4. Thank you for the advice anyway though.

Tell the guy to deal with his own demons before he brings them to the board, cause you got psycannons and those invulns won't help him.

ZombieKoolaid wrote:
1) This list apparently has been banned in tournaments.

No such thing. Next!

1) Are there any good anti Tyranid tactics I can employ? If generalities should be avoided where are some anti Tyranid articles to be found for the new codex?

Shoot Hive Guard first, anti-tank weapons. Then Tervigons. Then the big ones. Then you win.

2) Where can I find a list of lists that have been banned in Games Workshop Tournaments? My google skills have failed me on this one people, and I can't look at one more chibi tyranid picture that was mislabeled or my head will explode.

GW does not ban lists. This is not MTG.

3) Is it dishonorable to look up and use an anti Tyranid list built JUST to beat him? If not, where could one be located?

In a word: yes. In more words: any "Anti-Tyranid list you find on the internet is almost certainly designed by a noob or a dumbass. Top-level 40K players play all-comers lists. Always.

Iron_Chaos_Brute wrote:

3) Is it dishonorable to look up and use an anti Tyranid list built JUST to beat him? If not, where could one be located?

In a word: yes. In more words: any "Anti-Tyranid list you find on the internet is almost certainly designed by a noob or a dumbass. Top-level 40K players play all-comers lists. Always.

I'm not entirely sure about this.

It is true that most lists for friendly or competitive play are, and should be, designed to play any mission and against any opponent. This is because the standard setup of 40K is that you do not know the mission you are playing or the opponent you face till right before it happens. The 'skill' of listbuilding therefore has come to be synonymous with designing something that can account for any opponent or any mission objective. (In reality, most designed lists are actually attempts to be designed in such a way that the opponent's force is irrelevant - the list is theoretically supposed to do whatever it wants regardless of the opponent. This is because playing an army in such a way as to be truly reactive and able to account for any opponent's strengths and weaknesses is beyond most people. But that is a discussion for another time.)

All of this is well and good. The 'mechanic' of not knowing what you'll face or what you'll have to do is just another random element to be accounted for in 40K, and that's fine. But that doesn't mean it's the only pure or interesting way to play. It is one level of strategy to look solely at your own strengths and weaknesses, knowing nothing about the terrain of engagement, the objectives, or the opponent. It is a totally different strategic exercise to create a battle plan where you can examine beforehand what the objectives will be and what the nature of the opponent will be, and to thus use your own analysis of this additional intelligence to guide your own strategy. In real combat, or in sports, strategists do not design their battle/game plan to be the same regardless of the terrain, or field, or opponent. NFL teams change their plays, their overall gameplan, and their personnel from week to week to account for differences in field, weather, and their opponent's tendencies and weaknesses. There is no reason that a similar idea cannot or should not be applied to wargames such as 40K.

It is an exercise that my old gaming group would do frequently - instead of bringing standard all comers lists, we arranged the missions and opponents in advance, usually as part of a campaign. The armies we brought for those battles were very different - we could guess at large elements of the opponent's army (based on what models he had, etc.), but there were always surprises, of the 'I figured you'd think I'd bring this, so I brought this', and so on. I personally find these setups almost more satisfying than standard all comers style of play, because it adds extra elements to the strategy - yes, I can guess as to my opponent and tailor my list accordingly, but he can do the same.

So no, I don't think it's morally reprehensible at all to tailor your list to beat Tyranids. It is not only realistic and smart, but entirely appropriate. You may not be able to guess exactly what list this guy will bring, but you can probably guess some of it based on hearsay and your friend who could at least remember if it had tons of swarm or tons of MCs or something. If it is some internet list, it will no doubt be gimmicky, and most probably spammy, so familiarise yourself with the Tyranid rules, especially the more finicky ones, and don't be afraid to check the rules very closely, even during the game. I've seen many a game lost for no other reason than one guy was able to browbeat everyone around into his interpretation of an obscure rule which was at the very least ambiguous and frequently wrong.

And as an addendum, no, I don't think you're playing for the wrong reasons either. Part of the fun of competition against people we dislike is to rub their face in their defeats, metaphorically speaking. There are few greater pleasures than winning gracefully against some pond scum who is losing gracelessly. As long as you are, in fact, winning gracefully, and saying all the right things, feel free to gloat internally as much as you wish.

Nope. Playing for that reason is likely to not only be no fun at all, but it is likely to degenerate into rules debates and the game will likely end early with no clear winner. Egos have a knack for screwing with your games... that is all it is: a game. Coming to the game to prove dominance over somebody is a fool's errand. You should be playing the game to have fun, not to WAAC. If you want to do that, you should be going to tournaments where the rest of that breed of player are. That way, there is a judge, and clearly defined rules to keep you both honest. In a game with no judge or 3rd party to mediate, it just gets ugly with this kind of competition.

If you're going to play this game, get a UNBIASED 3rd person to judge. Its the only way it will work.

Tell your mate that he can play you once he wants to have a good time. And that if he needs to settle disputes it should be done with a game that is more dependent on player skill, such as chess.

Failing that, big guns for the big bugs. Flamers for the small ones. Mechanise your army and start with taking out his takdestroyers (he can't take that many). Make sure your TH+SS terminators have support that can clear out the small bugs so you can get the assault against his monter creatures.

If his list is banned... the only reason I can think of is that it doesn't follow the rules properly. Or that he is referring to some odd sort of comp-limited tournament.

If you really want to go down this route, check out some lists from yesthetruthhurts.com that's a haven for WAAC powergamers :-)

Wow, I had the BEST game with this guy after I redid my list. He wanted to embarass me so instead I played what has been dubbed my SM "Clown List".

Just a short glimpse:

Cato Sicarius
Command Squad w/4 Plasma Guns

2x Tac Squad w/ 10 +Plasma Gun/Plasma Cannon/Sergeant has Power Sword Plasma Pistol

2x Sternguard squad w/ 10 (proxied) combi plasma's

I ran the rest armor w/ a vindicator and preds and just spent the WHOLE time trying to fire as many infantry based plasma weapons as possible. First turn both my tax squad sergeants KILL themselves.

My opponent walked all over me but his victory was made sour. I forced him to watch me ENJOY LOSING.

If you can't win, take the flavor out of the win. His lesson was not one of humility, but of spirit.

Ahahaha! Excellently played... both as in "Played your opponent" and "Played the situation". Dozens of 127 year old bald monks in orange robes are smiling and nodding approvingly at you from their desolate mountain tops.

ZombieKoolaid wrote:Wow, I had the BEST game with this guy after I redid my list. He wanted to embarass me so instead I played what has been dubbed my SM "Clown List".

So what was his list?

Yes I'd like to see a Tyranid list that is so pwnage that it is banned...

Keep in mind that my attention was on what his units looked like and did, not what they were named. I don't play nids myself nor have I much experience with them.

He had a pair of carnifexes with anti-armor stuff on em, (I know because I rammed all my tanks into them and they still ended up killing them.)

He had something called a parasite. Every time it wounded one of my infantry he put down 6 of these little bases with larva looking tyranids on them.

Lots of gargoyles (I don't know their real name).

Last thing, he had a swarm of gaunts. They all had rending claws which I have to say would have been demoralizing had I cared about the outcome of the game. Those things were very deadly.

I'll see if I can get a copy of his list next time to post. Suffice to say he wasn't too happy with my playstyle but it's ok, if there's one thing ZombieKoolaid man is, it's a good sport.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would like to take this opportunity to bow and apologize for the noob like posting I performed here. I should have realized upon not FINDING a list of banned army lists that such a thing did not exist. Thank you all for not slamming my face in the mud for that one. Second let me say that the positive outlook that those who posted showed opened my eyes to a different level of player that I rarely see anymore in any gaming environment. Good on you boys! *passes out the spiked Kool Aid*

I'm very impressed that you took the high road, man. Good show! I'm very glad you realized that discretion is the better part of valor, and sportsmanship is a softscore!

Glad you had fun, that's all that matters.

ZombieKoolaid wrote:Keep in mind that my attention was on what his units looked like and did, not what they were named. I don't play nids myself nor have I much experience with them.

He had a pair of carnifexes with anti-armor stuff on em, (I know because I rammed all my tanks into them and they still ended up killing them.)

He had something called a parasite. Every time it wounded one of my infantry he put down 6 of these little bases with larva looking tyranids on them.

Lots of gargoyles (I don't know their real name).

Last thing, he had a swarm of gaunts. They all had rending claws which I have to say would have been demoralizing had I cared about the outcome of the game. Those things were very deadly.

I'll see if I can get a copy of his list next time to post. Suffice to say he wasn't too happy with my playstyle but it's ok, if there's one thing ZombieKoolaid man is, it's a good sport.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would like to take this opportunity to bow and apologize for the noob like posting I performed here. I should have realized upon not FINDING a list of banned army lists that such a thing did not exist. Thank you all for not slamming my face in the mud for that one. Second let me say that the positive outlook that those who posted showed opened my eyes to a different level of player that I rarely see anymore in any gaming environment. Good on you boys! *passes out the spiked Kool Aid*

Fexes don't have anti-armor anything. They regularly have S9 and are monstrous, but that's it.

The Parasite of Mortrex does NOT make 6 ripper swarms each time he wounds. In fact, he makes D6 ripper swarms each time he causes a casualty only if the wounded model fails a Toughness test.

Neither termagants nor hormagaunts have access to rending in any way.


I seriously believe this guy cheated you to hell and back.

There's a few things fishy with his list to be honest.

Parasite of Mortrex - Something really fishy is going on here. The parasite only makes swarms when it KILLS an infantry model, and only if the infantry model fails a toughness test. Then the player gets d6 Bases of Ripper Swarms.

Gaunts with rending claws? Probably hormagants, little guys with scything talons (Re-roll ones). If he said they had rending claws (Rending), he was cheating.

The other two things seem fine
Gargoyles are the little gaunts with wings.

Carnies - Monstrous creatures murder vehicles in melee, do not get close!

Now, want some help for the rematch?

Edit: Dang beat me to it.
And carnies can get Claws, which help against vehicles. Besides, at close range, str 9 plus monstrous creature means dead vehicle no matter what.

Well this guy is one of those that cannot be trusted to act towards the common interest of fellow players. What I mean is, if the rule helps HIM, it's right. If the rule hurts him, it should be changed, impromptu, MIDGAME. If someone else legitimately pulls a rule directly from the book they are accused (quite profanely) of bending the rules to their advantage.

THAT is why I find happiness in his defeat, but yesterday, I found serenity in his victory, since at the end of turn 6, it was still only a game.

Yep, but its still fun to win games!

ZombieKoolaid wrote:Well this guy is one of those that cannot be trusted to act towards the common interest of fellow players. What I mean is, if the rule helps HIM, it's right. If the rule hurts him, it should be changed, impromptu, MIDGAME. If someone else legitimately pulls a rule directly from the book they are accused (quite profanely) of bending the rules to their advantage.

THAT is why I find happiness in his defeat, but yesterday, I found serenity in his victory, since at the end of turn 6, it was still only a game.

I see nothing with wanting to play to win, but it does sound like your opponent is a TFG. Really, he sounds like an asshat who gives competitive players a bad name.

Despite the fact that he won, you actually truly are the winner. You didn't act like an ass, and you got the last laugh. While you didn't win, he didn't win either, because he had his 'wonderous victory' ruined by your extremely funny army selection. It's like winning a race to trip and break your legs right after you pass the finish line.

I think the major win of this situation will be apparent when you count up how many of your mutual friends wants to play against during the coming months. Compare that to the number that wants to play against him in the same timeframe. Now you have showed that it's not neccessary to play on his terms.

His list and playstyle sounds extremely bogus btw.