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I have this plan, you see. I'm going to get myself some Chaos Daemons and put them on the square bases and then play them in both 40k and WHFB. I've heard that they're ridiculously powerful in WHFB(but they'll likely get nerfed in 8th edition, and I won't start playing until then anyway), but how are they in 40k? I know that like, half of them go into reserve and deep strike in, but aside from that I know nothing.

Emperor Luigi wrote:I have this plan, you see. I'm going to get myself some Chaos Daemons and put them on the square bases and then play them in both 40k and WHFB. I've heard that they're ridiculously powerful in WHFB(but they'll likely get nerfed in 8th edition, and I won't start playing until then anyway), but how are they in 40k? I know that like, half of them go into reserve and deep strike in, but aside from that I know nothing.

They are terrible. That's about it really

You can gear them to do some things incredibly well - one guy I play against has an army that is actually pretty good at killing footslogging Marines, but nothing else. They're wonky and should have stayed an addendum to the Chaos Marines instead of getting their own book. You'll lose often unless you're spamming a lot of Bloodcrushers or something similar. The army is also unreliable as it's all deep striking, which means that there's a pretty good chance of some of your stuff floating off-table or into your opponent's models first turn. They're not terribly satisfying to fight either, since they all have crappy invulnerable saves in place of armor saves. A better choice than Necrons though.

Demons in 40k are very fragile because of their low invulnerable saves. However, if you spam Bloodcrushers they can be a real problem. Flamers are also a problem if they arrive within flame template range of anything.

Maaaaaaaaaaan. D:

This puts a damper on my brilliant plan. Also, the more I read about WHFB the more I want to play right now, and I don't want to play Daemons while they're still tremendously overpowered. Now I'm thinking about Dwarfs, because I can get them and the small rulebook for über cheap with Battle for Skull Pass, or Bretonnians, because I just like them. But that's a problem for the WHFB board, not here.

When I came back to the hobby recently I had exactly the same intention, mate. I thought I'd buy a bunch of Daemons, paint them up and voilà! Army for two games.

Luckily I read the 40k Daemon codex before I did it... because I would've been pissed! They've got some powerful elements in their army, but the whole thing never really seems to come together somehow. Ever.

Emperor Luigi wrote:Maaaaaaaaaaan. D:

This puts a damper on my brilliant plan. Also, the more I read about WHFB the more I want to play right now, and I don't want to play Daemons while they're still tremendously overpowered. Now I'm thinking about Dwarfs, because I can get them and the small rulebook for über cheap with Battle for Skull Pass, or Bretonnians, because I just like them. But that's a problem for the WHFB board, not here.

I suggest HE or skaven. Rumors are really stong that 8th ed starter set (this summer) will have those 2.

Actually I run daemons, and do quite well. The only thing I have too much of a problem with is armor 14 and dreads. And I hardly ever run bloodcrushers. In fact this last weekend was my first time using them. Worked out well enough, but pricey.

I quite like daemons. And while Bloodcrushers are a very, very powerful unit, I don't think that they're necessary to win games in a competitive situation.

Sure, daemons can be unpredicable (re. unreliable) but their true potential can be realized with a healthy balance between the two waves.

Plaguebearers make for excellent objective holders. Bloodletters and bloddcrushers are great for assault.

AP3 flame templates? Bye bye MEQ.

Daemon Princes haev an ungodly amount of options to fit all your preferences.

As long as you have an adaptible playstyle and can go with the flow, Chaos Daemons can be a real tough army to beat.

Just pray you don't face LR/Psycannon Spam GK with Mystics.

I have really enjoyed playing Khorne daemons. I find them to be quite competitive too.

G

Frostreaver wrote:Just pray you don't face Psycannon Spam GK with Mystics.

Guilty

A buddy of mine plays daemons, routinely wins/near the top of our tournaments, even qualified for Nationals at 'Ard Boyz with them. As the old saying goes, "It's the Indian, not the arrow." A good player can win with anything and daemons have some nasty units and combos. They aren't idiot-proof, but they can be very difficult to handle if played well and with a solid list.

Brother SRM wrote:You can gear them to do some things incredibly well - one guy I play against has an army that is actually pretty good at killing footslogging Marines, but nothing else. They're wonky and should have stayed an addendum to the Chaos Marines instead of getting their own book. You'll lose often unless you're spamming a lot of Bloodcrushers or something similar. The army is also unreliable as it's all deep striking, which means that there's a pretty good chance of some of your stuff floating off-table or into your opponent's models first turn. They're not terribly satisfying to fight either, since they all have crappy invulnerable saves in place of armor saves. A better choice than Necrons though.

BortherSRM really hit it. I completely agree. I'd like to ad, I have been playing Warhammer 40k for 20 years, and the 40k demon dex flies in the face of all that tradition.

I find the demon army so absolutely irritating to play against in 40k I just quit playing against it in friendly games. I have friends with them, I just refuse to play against them.

To sum up:

Eternal Warrior
Invulnerable
Deep Strike
Fearless
Custom set up (every mission setup ignored)

...on everything in the army, every game, is just way too much. IMO it's a poorly conceived idea, I can't wait till it is outdated permanently, may it go the way of the lost and the damned (an actual great codex I would trade the demon dex for anytime), and soon.

Emperor Luigi wrote:Maaaaaaaaaaan. D:

This puts a damper on my brilliant plan. Also, the more I read about WHFB the more I want to play right now, and I don't want to play Daemons while they're still tremendously overpowered. Now I'm thinking about Dwarfs, because I can get them and the small rulebook for über cheap with Battle for Skull Pass, or Bretonnians, because I just like them. But that's a problem for the WHFB board, not here.

Of course you -could- always do what my lady does and play CSM and use your Daemons as "Summoned Daemons" in the codex. It's not the best solution, but it's better than getting completely cut to ribbons by using the Daemon Codex

Emperor Luigi wrote:I have this plan, you see. I'm going to get myself some Chaos Daemons and put them on the square bases and then play them in both 40k and WHFB. I've heard that they're ridiculously powerful in WHFB(but they'll likely get nerfed in 8th edition, and I won't start playing until then anyway), but how are they in 40k? I know that like, half of them go into reserve and deep strike in, but aside from that I know nothing.

My daemons are currently set up the same way. I built the army for WHFB and put them all on square bases with the intent to use them in both games (Note that this was 6th Ed. WHFB at the time (Hordes of Chaos / Storm of Chaos)). The army was powerful and worked well when I first played it in 6th Ed.; then 7th ed. came out and the army became godly. It is a lot of fun to play, but you will soon find yourself running out of opponents.

In 40K with the new Daemons Codex, I was extremely disappointed with the army. The units individually look quite good on paper, but with the addition of the mandatory deep strike rules and the elimination of assaulting after a successful close combat in 5th Ed., their performance is quite poor.

The army is so random during deployment that trying to develop and implement any sort of strategy beforehand is a complete waste of time. Half of your army (if you're lucky with your scatter rolls) will arrive in the first turn and generally get shot to death (ie. their full army firing at half of yours). Since most of the daemons are close combat oriented and can not assault the turn they deep strike, this is a double whammy. Next, the rest of your forces come in a random piece at a time and generally get shot up as you bring them into the game.

Lastly, because assaulting after a successful close combat is no longer allowed, the vast majority of the army that depends on close combat (re: anything except Tzeentch) will get shot up after each and every squad they destroy in close combat. If you're fighting space marines with 5 man tactical/combat squads, this is especially devastating.

So to make a long story short, I find the army far too frustrating in 40K and gain very little satisfaction and enjoyment from playing them. I now prettymuch exclusively use them in WHFB (when I can find opponents that don't mind playing against Daemons).

Heh, that's the exact reason my girlfriend switched from Daemons to Chaos Marines with summoned Daemons. She played a small basic-sized game against my buddy's Genestealers and Hive Tyrant. Her army got wiped out by the Barbed Strangler in three turns. She only managed to kill about 2 'stealers.

Apparently mileage may vary on Daemons. I use them with great success. Pretty much you either love them, or hate them, there's little middle ground with them.

I've been enjoying them. I've been putting together a 4-god army, and they've been a lot of fun to play. I suggest you take a look at Somnicide's battle reports...he's been running daemons for awhile, and is currently focusing on a Tzeentch army.

dancingcricket wrote:Apparently mileage may vary on Daemons. I use them with great success. Pretty much you either love them, or hate them, there's little middle ground with them.

Agreed. I've been spectacularly successful with mine.

My buddy runs a Tzeench/Slannesh Daemon army and he does pretty well. I think it's due to his 2 soulgrinders and Kairos.

I run a full Nurgle Tallyman list. I win more often than I lose with it, but I've learned than a fast maneuverable army like Eldar will stomp is nearly every time. It was meant more as a fun build project than a serious competitive list, so in that light it preforms really well in the end I think.

Depends on what models you get and who you play against. It's easy to make a daemon list that almost always wins against footslogging marines; half the units in the codex are practically anti-power-armor or anti-terminator specialists. (Nothing makes me happier than a squad of terminators deepstriking in near me, because I know I'm about to take out 400 points of elites with a 105-point squad.)

Depending on who's around you, though, it might be harder to find somebody who plays footslogging marines. Especially if you start tabling them frequently.

And many of those units that work so well against marines are severely overcosted against absolutely anything else. (Except Necrons without C'tans or footslogging Sisters of Battle.)

Thanks for the plug, drunkenboxer :-)

I love playing daemons - they are a great army to play. They are definitely competitive, but they aren't point and click. There are some "hard counters" which are difficult but not impossible to overcome such as mystics and fleet officers.

You can check my sig for a tactica (really more of an overview - though I am working on some big updates as I have been getting in more and more games) and a link to all my batreps (though not all are daemons).