Using Kommandos

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**QuietOrkmi**

What are some of the ways to use kommandos effectively?

I currently feel that Snikrot is a poor choice given the lack of power weapons he has along with the lack of a boss pole he brings.

For as much as 30 boyz, Nob w/PK & BP, you can get 15 kommandos, 2 Burnas, Nob w/PK & BP... does anyone else feel that this is not worth it?

For 60 more points I can firmly secure 20 boyz, Nob w/PK & BP into CC turn 2 with a Battlewagon... [Deff Rolla, Grot Riggers, Big Shoota]

What you can do with the 15 Kommandos is deny enemies space... kinda of expensive for area denial considering that lootas do a better job from you board edge for 5 more points.

What if it was a 180 point unit with 14 kommandos including a Nob (PK&BP) would it be worth it as area denial?

What do you guys think?

**WingsofCadia**

Even though they cost more you get very good use out of them. Playing against them watching them barbecue my IG is a pain until i get rid of them. They are definitely effective even with snikrot.

**Alerian**

9 Kommandos + Snikrot is great.

With his ambush, you threaten anything within 18" of any edge (Waagh), and are guaranteed to splat units within 12" of any edge on the turn the Kommandos come in.

Such a unit excels at killing enemy longe range fire power, especially tanks, as Snik is S6 on the charge and can re-roll misses. This makes rear armor is pretty tasty for him

2 burnas in the squad will also make them a threat to units with an armor saves, such as Oblits and Crisis suits.

Finally, he makes getting to any objective not near the center of the table easy, so you can take an opponent's scoring unit out, and contest it with Snik and company.

**QuietOrkmi**

IG in my area tend to stay in vehicles because of this, A TAC squad could also beat them in CC if the Komandos are denied the charge....

Given Space Wolves, and Gaunts get Counter Attack a wound on a 4+ means I tend to lose combat against them.

Just math-hammered it and 14 Kommandos with a powerklaw will kill a Carnifex with about 2 dead kommandos... So Kommandos seem to be TMC hunters... I also math-hammered it up to 3 Carnifexes and found the kommandos win until there are 3 Carnifexes... given the difference in the number of attacks (5 vs 52)

**Alerian**

QuietOrkmi wrote:IG in my area tend to stay in vehicles because of this,

How does this help when Snik is great and opening up those vehicles? (S6, rerolling misses against rear armor, AV10)

Snikrot is about forcing really bad choices against enemy units...move away from board edges so Snik and his squad don't kill you, or stay back so that the Boys/Nobs in BW or Bikers don't assault you turn 2....either way, the Ork player wins...the enemy either has to eat assaults by Snikrot or the rest of the boys...sometimes both

Also, as of note, I have never lost an assault against Tac Marines with Snikrot and Kommandos...that is just silly talk

IMHO, Kommandos w/o Snikrot are just overpriced boys that can buy 2 burnas

**olympia**

Snikrot is good for punishing people that hug the table edges. With practice he can be more than a suicide squad.

**Sliggoth**

Snikrot is going to be even more useful now that the deff rolla rules have come out. Most armies are going to need to deploy farther back than they did before or else face a second turn deff roll ram. (conceiveably a first turn deff rolla ram with red paint and a sideways deployment)

So expect to see your opponents army closer to the back of the table from now on, if you field deff rollas.

Deff rolla + Snikrot = pain.

Sliggoth

**BeRzErKeR**

A max Snikrot squad does three things very well;

First, they kill back-edge vehicles. Hydras, Manticores, Predators, anything that hugs the back edge and stays still to fire they eat.

Second, they take out fire support. Devastators, Obliterators, Havocs, Broadsides, they all die easy.

Third, he contests objectives. As long as your opponent's objective is within 18" of a board edge, Snikrot and his merry crew can pop up and assault the unit sitting there on the turn they come in. Snik gets 6 S6 attacks by himself, re-rolling misses, and the other 15 Kommandos drop 58 S4 attacks, 6 of which are PW hits.

I almost always include Snikrot in my lists, I find him very, very useful. In one game he killed 4 Hive Guard and 2 Biovores, in another he killed a Manticore, 2 Chimeras and a CCS, in a third he killed two Razorbacks and the Long Fang squads inside. He's always made his points back for me.

**indigo_jones**

All of the things said above are true of Snikrot. He mainly makes up for his points in enemy deployment, forcing them to stay away from table edges, and thus bringing them closer to your BWs. I would only use Snikrot in a BW/Speed Freak list.

Though most seem to like him in a larger squad to give him a bigger punch, I prefer him as a suicide squad. Snikrot with 5 kommandos, 2 burnas usually does the same as Snikrot with 10 kommandos. I like taking a small squad because when he dies quickly (as he will regardless of the size of his unit) you won't feel so bad as you've traded 160ish points for a Leman Russ/Tac Squad/Oblits etc. You're opponent still knows you have him and will still have to adjust his deployment accordingly anyways.

I've also found that Snikrot and 5 kommandos will kill just about as much as with 10 kommandos or more. The offensive punch comes from Snikrot and the burnas, with the other boyz just being ablative wounds. Being that your paying a little over double for these glorified boyz, the extra points you spend here could go to fleshing out other squads where the numbers actually matter.

Snikrot and 5 kommandos, while certainly not as powerful as a larger squad are more points effective. Sure with a 10 man squad you can obliterate a Dev squad or whatnot, but they're certainly going to die anyways next turn, even with a full size squad. the five man Snikrot team will kill these squads just as easily, you're going to lose them anyways, why spend more points on them than you have to. Snikrot is mostly used for taking out artillery/tanks or heavy support fire units, and you don't need a lot of hits to take these units out, just a good number of high impact hits(burnas for Oblits, dev squads and Snikrot for tanks)

**Casper**

In my personal experience the threat of Sinkrot makes me want to take him. They either move closer to the rest of my orks or they stay back and let him eat a unit before they turn and fire on him. Very useful for the rest of my boyz.

**I grappled the shoggoth**

I have played against ork armies using snikrot, and against ones not using him. Against lists that dont use him the game is twice as easy to win.

**Norade**

Not sure how people feel on this but my group has ruled that Snikrot can have an IC attached to come in with him. With that in mind, imagine Snikrot and his boyz as well as Ghazy pouring into the back ranks of your enemy.

**Alerian**

Norade wrote:Not sure how people feel on this but my group has ruled that Snikrot can have an IC attached to come in with him. With that in mind, imagine Snikrot and his boyz as well as Ghazy pouring into the back ranks of your enemy.

^^ Please don't start that old rules arguement in here

**QuietOrkmi**

Having a 5 man suicide squad intrigues me... This would be 3 Regular boyz, 2 Burna Boyz and Snikrot... correct?

**Norade**

Alerian wrote:
Norade wrote:Not sure how people feel on this but my group has ruled that Snikrot can have an IC attached to come in with him. With that in mind, imagine Snikrot and his boyz as well as Ghazy pouring into the back ranks of your enemy.

^^ Please don't start that old rules arguement in here

It is a valid tactic to discuss and does effect the worth of the character.

**tokugawa**

QuietOrkmi wrote:Having a 5 man suicide squad intrigues me... This would be 3 Regular boyz, 2 Burna Boyz and Snikrot... correct?

They have no meltabombs or meltaguns.

So they need enough S4 attack to work with artillery vehicles. 5 guys are not enough.

**olympia**

tokugawa wrote:
QuietOrkmi wrote:Having a 5 man suicide squad intrigues me... This would be 3 Regular boyz, 2 Burna Boyz and Snikrot... correct?

They have no meltabombs or meltaguns.

So they need enough S4 attack to work with artillery vehicles. 5 guys are not enough.

In the ideal situation they are coming on the back table edge and assaulting vehicles that did not move. So five kommandos=20 attacks that auto-hit rear armor 10 with S4. So you'll get 3 or 4 glances from them. Snikrot will hit with 6 S6 attacks so you'll get 3 pens from him. If your opponent is shuffling his back line to prevent auto-hits from snikrot then he is shooting less and snikrot is earning his points without even being on the table.

Actually, I'm less in favor of a small squad because they'd bounce off a three-man obliterator squad, long fangs, or Tau jumpsuits.

**tokugawa**

olympia wrote:
tokugawa wrote:
QuietOrkmi wrote:Having a 5 man suicide squad intrigues me... This would be 3 Regular boyz, 2 Burna Boyz and Snikrot... correct?

They have no meltabombs or meltaguns.

So they need enough S4 attack to work with artillery vehicles. 5 guys are not enough.

In the ideal situation they are coming on the back table edge and assaulting vehicles that did not move. So five kommandos=20 attacks that auto-hit rear armor 10 with S4. So you'll get 3 or 4 glances from them. Snikrot will hit with 6 S6 attacks so you'll get 3 pens from him. If your opponent is shuffling his back line to prevent auto-hits from snikrot then he is shooting less and snikrot is earning his points without even being on the table.

Actually, I'm less in favor of a small squad because they'd bounce off a three-man obliterator squad, long fangs, or Tau jumpsuits.

2 pens...and movement may not handicap shooting for many vehicles(Russ, excorsist, vindi, etc).

Since you always want to wreck more vehicles at that turn, you would try to select a position for facing a squadron or launching a multiple charge...

Does he has a bosspole?

**Eyclonus**

No Snikrot does not have a boss pole, which isn't a good idea as it kills another Kommando for a re-roll on a suicide unit.