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Hi,

My friend has been having a blast lately playing an IG list Im having serious issues dealing with.

For 2000 points he gets:

Two squads of 10 Ogryns with Lord commissar attached

LR Vanquisher - to deal with my exorcist
LR Executionner - to deal with immolators and rhinos
Griffon Mortar - Annoying for any infantries that have to footslog.

1 platoon command squad
2 x heavy weapon teams, mix of heavy bolters and auto-cannons
1 conscipt squad, 2 or 3 infantry squads. Those are usually used to shield his tanks.
1 veteran squad.

I have access to all vehicles and a lot of sister models, but no penitent engines and other priest enabled units. How should I go about pulling a victory against this?

Last game we played, terrain was somewhat against me, but as much as I wanted to ignore his ogryn squads, the AC stopped my rhinos in their tracks and I did have to deal with the ogryns closing in on 2 fronts. These things can put out a lot of firepower and soak a lot in return and the lack of str 10 weapons makes it impossible to kill them quickly.

If I get stuck in assault, whether I get the charge or not does not matter as I rarely live more than 1 round with the crazy amount of attacks they can get. I've tried different combinations of faith points as well, but most of them are a waste against ogryns.

Any advice?

I have been thinking about this for a long time now. Without penitent engines you have no easy way to deal with the ogyrns. You could take them down with weight of numbers, but you need to take out the executioner. run no tanks just all sisters, and deep strike 3 7 sister seraphim squads with inferno pistols and melta bombs to take out the executioner. Use the invulnerable save powers if they target the seraphim. After that poor firepower into the ogyrns and hope for the best

Run foot-slogging list which has no long-range firearms, against IG? You are heroic, and crazy.

Please don't fill poor units to your list, for "dealing" with some "special" units. They would be easily killed by "normal" units.

How many immolators/rhinos/chimeras do you have? At 2000pts, you could take about 10~12. He has not enough firearms to open all your vehicles.

Cannot live more than 1 turn? No problem. When he use a whole turn to make his 500pts unit to kill a 65pts vehicle, or a 70pts squad...you would benefited.

TWO full squads of Ogryns AND Lord Commisars?! That's an almighty point sink right there.

With those two squads you should have the very rare advantage of being able to outnumber Guard! As tokugawa said, you can take an obcene amount of vehicles in 2000pt. Those Ogyrns are footslogging so Sisters with flamers/h.flamers firing out of the hatch of a Rhino will seriously test their wounds, not taking into account the total lack of wound allocation so whole models are going down rather than being spread across the squad. Immolators and Dominion squads also bring an incredible amount of firepower to the army, use those too.

Also mentioned: Deep-striking Seraphim w/ inferno pistols/melta bombs to take out the tanks.

Don't forget your Faith Points either.

L. Wrex

Okay as a sister's player I have a few suggestions.

Correct me if I'm wrong but you cannot have 10 man squads of ogryns. You can only have 5 or 6 total per unit so in short you are being cheated. (I do'nt run ogryns in my IG army so I forget exactly how many)

Mech up. Don't footslog anything, don't take 1 but 3 excorcists. 1 dies 3 is a huge problem for anyone to deal with. If you are playing immolater spam disregard this (I still prefer excorcists myself though)

Also how are you playing your sister's rhinos? I ask this because sister's have 4th edition rhinos which means 2 things really aside from the increased point cost. First off you only have 1 firing point (in 4th ed 2 models could fire outta 1 port) and 2nd your smoke is different. (this is true for all sister's vehicles) Sister's smoke converts all penetrating hits to glancing hits so if you are granted a cover save by something and pop smoke you get the 4+ cover and all penetrating hits are now glancing . I'm a firm believer of, if your opponent doesn't like old rules you'd gladly take the updated IA rules for sister's rhinos, I.E. making them have 2 fire points and costing 35 points instead of 50 with free searchlight and new smoke. This is one of the few times havingt an old codex is to your advantage.

Next I'd say castling works pretty well for sisters, choose one flank assault from it all the while granting cover saves to all yoru mechanized units its pretty effective. The infantry shouldn't be a problem because every basic sister squad should have at least 2 if not 3 potential flamers in it (heavy flamer + combi/brazier and a normal flamer if you don't want a meltagun)

Do you run a flying nun or immolater cannoness with celestians? Cause a flying nun is very effectieve against IG especially if you can block LOS. at 2000 points you could in fact run 2. Also don't forget litenies of faith. That executioner can really put a hurt on power armored sisters a liteny can raelly save the day.

My final suggestion is pure hilarity and costs about 500 - 600 points but its very very effective. Stelek came up with this one I think. Take an inducted IG platoon led by al rahiem (so they can outflank) full 5 platoons, with commisars sarges with power weapons and 5 sister's priests with eviscorators. blob them all together. So you have a 60 model unit outflanking that has 10 power weapons 5 S 6 chain fists 50 abalitive wounds that reroll attacks on the charge that are stubborn and reroll failed leadership test. Not to mention with run like the wind order (from al rahiem) you can shoot an assault weapon and move D6 inchs closer to your enemy effectively making them fleet.

Hope some of this helps.

First up, that's one of the dumbest IG armies I think I've ever seen. 20 Ogryns really??!! and only 3 vehicles?

First, don't sweat the vanquisher. Lack of blast means it will average 3 hits/game. If you are going down the footslogging route that means the most it will do is kill 3 girls. Big whoop. If you go mech, it can do more damage, but DSing seraphim with inferno pistols or even just driving up to it with MM immolators should get rid of it in short order.

Second, don't sweat the Griffon. In numbers these can be dangerous but just 1 against a 3+ save army? Its a mild annoyance that you should not make a priority target. If/when you get the chance it should die fairly easily.

Third, IG infantry - without multiple orders ('cos he's taken a Lord Commisar instead of a CCS) on foot. Yarg - if he's not sweeping these into his dead pile with a broom your dice rolls are worse than mine

That leaves you with two actual threats. The executioner should be target number one for anything with a melta weapon. This thing is dangerous and needs dropping fast. That just leaves the Ogryns, for which you have two options - first is to mech up and laugh as he hobbles round the board after you while you whittle him down to the point where you can comfortably take them out. If you go footslogging, just tarpit them with a big unit of sisters until the rest of his army is dealt with (20x sisters takes an inordinate amount of time to kill in CC given they don't have power weapons) and then finish them off.

This is a bad army - you should not even be slowing down TBH.

If you go for the squads of DSing Seraphim, remember to put a combi-melta and an Eviscerator on the superior; IP's only have a 6" range so even minimal scatter can mess you up and despite the expense, no SoB unit should leave home without an Eviscerator

Chimera_Calvin is right, this list shouldn't be giving you any trouble. Exorcists will make a horrible mess of his Ogryn units when he tries to advance with them, while the rest of your army should be able to weather his minimal firepower quite easily.

Don't try DS against IG army.

If the IG player has read the DH rulebook, your tactics would be nothing.

I'm guessing any IG player who tools up with 20 Ogryns and 3 vehicles at 2k hasn't read the DH codex.


Or the IG codex for that matter...

I recently played against an opponent with 10 Ogryns in one unit. It was ridiculous.

I don't have any STR 10 weapons in my army, so I was staring down 30 T5 wounds with basically a constant 4+ cover save.

I completely ignored it and in the end it gobbled up my 6 or so remaining GKTs near the end game, but didn't win him the game. Matter of fact, he played it a little defensively,giving his 30 man combined squad the good up front positioning, and it took him an extra turn to get them into the action.

I think facing down 20, which against many lists would be comically easy, would also be very difficult for a sisters play, sans Penitent Engines, to deal with. Toss in 6 of those and you are full of win against that list.

My oponent usually plays more of an Imperial gunline list, but since he came into a lot of ogryns and noticed how well they can do against me, he's been having fun.

Sisters thrive in the 12" or less range. Ogryns do as well, but are extremely resilient due to a high toughness and if they get a charge off, you can basically say good bye to a squad.

10 Ogryns - 41 attacks / 27 hits / 22 wounds - Enough to put two wounds on my VSS and if she dies, I lose the subborn feature and the squad is most likely to break if any of them survived in the first place.

Exorcist arent terribly reliable against them. You should average 1.64 wounds per exorcist per turn on them and that's assuming he has no cover saves.

Faith points are also terrible against them.

Divine Guidance - They already have no armor saves against you when shooting. In assault it might help you cause a few wounds that he would not get a save against, but the odds of that tipping the fight in your favor are near nonexistent.

Hand of the Emperor - Bringing yourself down to 1 initiative to wound on 4s will most likely result in a squad being whiped out before having done anything.

The rest of them are all useless since you're already getting the advantage without needing to expend faith points.

I will try to up my immolator count for the next game. Heavy Flamers are what helped me most in that last game so that could work. Seraphims would be too unreliable againts his tanks since he keeps blobs of infantries around them. I wouldnt be able to get a 3 inches or less shot at it. They also rarely survive his next shooting phase in large enough numbers to be a real threat afterwards.

My goal is to crumple one of his flanks. If I can kill a squad with little casualties, I think I can mop up the rest pretty reliably afterwards. I have been thinking of the following to hit him with:

Canoness (Blessed Weapon and regular upgrades) and a retinue of 9 celestian (Heavy Flamer, Flamer, Eviscerator).

The shooting before the assault should somewhat soften up the squad. The ensuing charge should kill a few more ogryns. If I can force his commissar lord into base to base and kill him, I assume I stand a good chance at breaking the ogryns afterwards.

If that is not enough I could join Celestine in the assault as well to bring a few more ogryns down before they counter attack, but her being an independant character would put her at risk. It also focuses a LOT of my points on dealing with a single squad of his, which I dont quite like.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Umm here are some maths I did to compare squads:

Ogryns + Commissar - 470

Canoness + Celestians - 280 footslogging, slightly more expensive in a rhino.

Assuming I get odds in my favor the flamers should kill two ogryns.

A charge with Divine guidance should be:

Canoness - 4 attacks / 3 hits (including the reroll), / 1.5 wounds
Celestians - 16 attacks / 10.56 hits / 1.75 wounds (which will ignore his armor)

5 ogryns - 16 attacks / 10.56 hits / 8.76 wounds / 2.8 dead after armor saves.

Celestian Superior - 3 attacks / 2 hits / 1.66 wounds.

The above is ignoring the commissar lord. In that example I would win the assault against the ogryns and with some luck killed the Commissar with my Eviscerator which should result in the ogryn squad breaking morale.

If he gets the assault however I am very much in trouble so it's down to who gets in first.

More Exorcists, for one. I wouldn't depend on Engines to save you, either. They're so fragile and won't even be immune to their attacks so you would likely have to support them.

I'd suggest ignoring and avoiding them. They are only a real threat to foot troops, so try to avoid dismounting and just play drive by with special weapons.

They are only a real threat to foot troops, so try to avoid dismounting and just play drive by with special weapons.

The S6 of the ogyrns FC is going to mess up any vehicle of his. Except that if the engines charge he will strike before them and only be glanced on a 6. Exorcists are going to do very little for you since they will only glance his russes on a 6, and not instant death the ogyrns

6 from the front. Exorcists are pretty mobile, and instant kill HWTs too. The Vanq cannon is pretty inaccurate to boot.

All the melee attacks in the world won't kill a vehicle they can't catch. Lap his flanks, deploy refused flank, manuver around his units.

Alternately, focus fire. Put 3-4 Sisters units against one Ogyrn unit. 4 Heavy Flamers and 4-8 flamer templates will render it manageable. If he clusters them right next to each other, just stay away. That's almost 1k points in 22 slow moving models. Kill the rest of his army and you'll probably win anyway.

Penitent Engines are almost sure to take casualties moving in from unsuppressable first turn fire unless you successfully screen them behind a wall of Rhino hulls, and they'll kill 1.5 Ogyrn each on average. 3.5 A, 1.75 hits, 1.45 wounds. Or 1.875 on the charge.

I have run against a similar list, though it was better with more tanks and only one ogryn squad at 1850. I usually run 2 exorcists with a HB Retributor squad. The Retributors ripped into the ogryn pretty well, dropping 1-2 a turn (bear in mind though, my Retributors are PROS, rarely missing for some reason) and the exorcists kept the tanks quiet enough for the flying nun to hack them to pieces. Otherwise nuns in rhinos and a dominion squad in immolator with 3 flamers and 1 melta rocked his troops.

Also, bear in mind that you can't give anyone a Combi weapon and an eviscerator, as they are both two handed and old codexes like WH don't allow that.

I haven't tried running penitents in the new edition, but I would not be optimistic running them against this guard army. If he has a turn of firing on them with ACs or PCs they are just going to fall apart, since they can die to a 6 on a glance.

There is no "ignore the Ogryns", unfortunately. Those fat bastards are on 40mm bases. Stretch out each unit of 10 in a line, and walk them forward. Against small arms fire like SoB put out, you'll be taking minimal casualties, and seriously restricting the Sisters' options.

Personally, I'd forfeit the first turn to allow a reactive deployment to the IG setup. Hide the Exorcist from the Vanquisher. If you can, deploy in cover with your infantry. I can't remember if Ogryns have frags, or not, but at least you'll get a cover save from the IG shooting. Concentrate fire on one squad of Ogryns til they're of a manageable size (or below 50%). You've got 24" of bolter range to get the job done, and a LOT more shooting than he does.

The answer is simple: MOAR VEHICLES. At 2000 points, you should have 3 Exorcists, multiple Immolators, and Rhinos for everything else. Walking Sisters are dead Sisters. Move up as quickly as possible using smoke launchers when you need 'em. Guardsmen burn just like anything else when you start dropping templates on them.

Immolator spam.

TheRhino wrote:There is no "ignore the Ogryns", unfortunately. Those fat bastards are on 40mm bases. Stretch out each unit of 10 in a line, and walk them forward. Against small arms fire like SoB put out, you'll be taking minimal casualties, and seriously restricting the Sisters' options.

Personally, I'd forfeit the first turn to allow a reactive deployment to the IG setup. Hide the Exorcist from the Vanquisher. If you can, deploy in cover with your infantry. I can't remember if Ogryns have frags, or not, but at least you'll get a cover save from the IG shooting. Concentrate fire on one squad of Ogryns til they're of a manageable size (or below 50%). You've got 24" of bolter range to get the job done, and a LOT more shooting than he does.

That's GREAT. It means you can focus on just one end of the line, using your superior mobility to create a local concentration of forces. That line is THIRTY inches long. Pick a side, put 3 or so units in Rhinos on one end. Unload and fire. He'll likely take casualties from the other end, and then dare him to charge you. There is one Ogyrn every 3.6 inches, so with a 14" engagement range he'll only get 4 into combat first turn. With a Chainsaw Cannoness or two and 3 units you could win this. Or you could just fire from the transport and see if he charges you. Once again, only likely to get 3-4 Ogyrn into combat. That's not good odds at 4+ & 6 to pen and he's decently packed up as a flamer target. Dismount, fire, possibly charge. Several Ogyrn will still be outside of the combat, as the reaction + previous turn's charges is still only 18 inches of movement.

Conga lines are great for tying things up, but bad for actually concentrating force.

Sisters are nearly incapable of inflicting ID on Ogyrn. A Force Weapon won't really help all that much, I think, compared to just another Chainsaw Cannoness although you could take a Lance strike. Grey Knights, or a GK HQ would even the odds, but you can't do that either I believe. A SM dread could, but would be a worse solution than Penitent Engines once you take the troops needed. A Calidus could kill one Commissar. I think you'll just have to learn to outmaneuver them, or buy Engines and screen them with Rhinos.

Would tank shock accomplish anything? You'd probably lose the Rhinos in the next turn but by that point they'll have delivered your sisters past the ogryn.

don_mondo wrote:Immolator spam.

burn those abhumans !
immo spam is probably the most effective WH build, and will fry those ogryns with Hflamers while getting vehicles with embarked meltas.


a dumb alternative is repentias.
did you ever try the 20 repentias squad ? it seems ridiculous at first sight, but can rampage an entire army. (i've seen it; and if you don't kill at least 15 of them on your first turn, they will get you horribly fast).
try to proxy it once, and see how he reacts. If me makes the mistake of only killing a few on first turn, then you get 2d6 advance; on your turn 6+d6 + 6 charge for eviscerating those ogryns.

Lots of flamers, 3 exorcists, lots of rhinos, if you have celestine, put her with seraphim w/ 2 flamers and deepstrike then charge the ogryns. what about inquisitor w/ 3x multi melta servitors and melta weaponry in heavy bolter/ heavy flamer chimera.

The Grog wrote:

TheRhino wrote:There is no "ignore the Ogryns", unfortunately. Those fat bastards are on 40mm bases. Stretch out each unit of 10 in a line, and walk them forward. Against small arms fire like SoB put out, you'll be taking minimal casualties, and seriously restricting the Sisters' options.

Personally, I'd forfeit the first turn to allow a reactive deployment to the IG setup. Hide the Exorcist from the Vanquisher. If you can, deploy in cover with your infantry. I can't remember if Ogryns have frags, or not, but at least you'll get a cover save from the IG shooting. Concentrate fire on one squad of Ogryns til they're of a manageable size (or below 50%). You've got 24" of bolter range to get the job done, and a LOT more shooting than he does.

That's GREAT. It means you can focus on just one end of the line, using your superior mobility to create a local concentration of forces. That line is THIRTY inches long. Pick a side, put 3 or so units in Rhinos on one end. Unload and fire. He'll likely take casualties from the other end, and then dare him to charge you. There is one Ogyrn every 3.6 inches, so with a 14" engagement range he'll only get 4 into combat first turn. With a Chainsaw Cannoness or two and 3 units you could win this. Or you could just fire from the transport and see if he charges you. Once again, only likely to get 3-4 Ogyrn into combat. That's not good odds at 4+ & 6 to pen and he's decently packed up as a flamer target. Dismount, fire, possibly charge. Several Ogyrn will still be outside of the combat, as the reaction + previous turn's charges is still only 18 inches of movement.

Conga lines are great for tying things up, but bad for actually concentrating force.

Sisters are nearly incapable of inflicting ID on Ogyrn. A Force Weapon won't really help all that much, I think, compared to just another Chainsaw Cannoness although you could take a Lance strike. Grey Knights, or a GK HQ would even the odds, but you can't do that either I believe. A SM dread could, but would be a worse solution than Penitent Engines once you take the troops needed. A Calidus could kill one Commissar. I think you'll just have to learn to outmaneuver them, or buy Engines and screen them with Rhinos.

All well and good, but there's still the remainder of his army firing at you over range. Casting the huge Ogryn Net is like casting a drag net when fishing. You're going to catch something.
You end up with the choice of taking down some Ogryn to slow the net, or taking out the fire support before it shreds your transports. it'll be a very cat-and-mouse fight, that's for sure.

You don't have to kill 'em if you can make 'em run away.

Load up the Immolators with Holy Promethium and force him to roll Morale so many times he runs away.

Consider a Vindicare for getting rid of the Lord Commisar (though it would take at least two turns of shooting with his three wounds) and make the Ogryn's Ld 7.