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Ey. This is my first 2k list. I think it looks pretty good to me but I feel like I should have some elites. I'm not sure though. Any and all constructive critism is welcome.



H.Q.185

CCS 185
4 Plasma Guns
Company Commander with Plasma Pistol
Chimera with Heavy Stubber


Troops 690

Veteran Squad 180
3 Plasma Guns
Chimera with heavy stubber

Veteran Squad 180
3 Plasma Guns
Chimera with heavy stubber

Veteran Squad 165
3 Meltaguns
Chimera with heavy stubber

Veteran Squad 165
3 Meltaguns
Chimera with heavy stubber


Heavy Support 705

Leman Russ Battle Tank squadron of three 450

Griffon squad of two 180
Enclosed crew compartment

Griffon 75


Fast Attack 420

Vendetta Gunship 140
Heavy Bolter side sponsons

Vendetta Gunship 140
Heavy Bolter side sponsons

Vendetta Gunship 140
Heavy Bolter side sponsons

seems pretty good imo, pretty good for an all comers list. How are you going to use the units? what is your strategy?

Vets for capturing vicorty points. Tanks for vehicle and anti horde, griffons anti-horde, and vendetta will kill all vehicles.

45 guys is a little thin for 2k guard, but you're packing alot firepower, that's fo sho! With only 40 scoring squishies, objectives may be a problem...

also just going to say that many tanks is sort of ridiculous. you seem to be putting too much on your leman's being able to deal with well anything. and while they can do that very well (can you say MEQ killer?) there also a very large tank. on battlefields like the ones at our FLGS, you wont be able to move those LR's at all. basically they turn into artillery, and well you have that. so in my opinion just drop the leman squad to 1 and give the 1 LR some plasma sponsons.

next on the list is well...lets put it this way. with my dark eldar list i simply have to move to the side and turn all of those squishy transports into wrecks, then my ravagers with disintegrators will probably wtf pwn your vets. not trying to have an e-peen flex or anything but thats just how i see it turning out.
simply put, you need more troops. yes i know you spent alot already but every army at 2k needs to have a huge supply of troops or you wont be able to capture objectives. also i'd say give your CCS a bunch of melta, and when there is a tank/TMC that needs to be taken down immediatly, drive up and unload on it. of course whatever is in it will proceed to murder your ccs but hey thats a price to pay.

for the troop problem i advise using those lovely vendetta's and valks to your advantage and putting 2 squads of vets in them and outflank them. maybe those 2 melta squads could go in, and then put in some flamer squads for some more anti horde goodness. also i believe those vendetta's have the TL lascannons, so the heavy bolter sponsons are useless imo and a point sink.

maximize the griffon squad (also drop the enclosed crew department because there probably going to stay in your deployment zone and not have any problems, so just bare bones it)

maybe add in another CCS for unit redundancy? it helps also so that you can continue to place orders in and of course puts in more vets.

also for elites i say psyker battle squads as they are the for there weaken resolve powers.

also (and i'll say it again and again and again) drop any upgrades on your chimera's. you already come with a heavy bolter and multilaser. you can also change those for a heavy flamer for free on each.

also keep in mind that you have probably some of the best fast attack in 40k, that being the vendetta/valk, and the hellhound/devil dog/banewolf. of the 3 the hell hound and banewolf are the most fun (for flamy goodness of course).

also for your h.q. i say drop the plasma pistol and put in an astropath.

or you could use the ally system and put in an inquisitor with emperors tarot and some mystics. i dont know exactly what they do but i've seen them in every competitive IG build and heard they are useful for reserve rolls.

lastly sorry for the wall of text, if theres anything i missed please note it. hope this helps

insanity-
How is the number of vehicles he has ridiculous..? Its only 13..

And its not going to be as easy as you think to get to that side armour on the chimeras. He has five of them (I wish there were more..) but still. They will all be parked right next to eachother covering eachother's sides. The only ones with exposed sides will be the two ends, and one of them will probably be protected by a table edge. So whoopty doo, you can POSSIBLY get one on side armour. Its not that hard to prevent that.

The heavy bolters on the vendettas are nice because when you demech your opponent (which this list may not be able to do incredibly quickly, but I'll cover how to improve that in a bit) you're going to enjoy those 6 extra s5 shots for 10 points, thanks.

Continuing on the vendettas, if you're going to have vendettas, take all vendettas, do not mix in hellhound variants, like you suggest, because they will stick out like sore thumb. If you want want hellhounds, take all hellhounds.

Inquisitor with tarot gives you a better chance for first turn, and mystics give you deepstrike defense. Also, don't go suggesting something when you don't even know what it does.

You don't need to duplicate HQ choices to get redundancy. Also what is this going to be ordering? You can't give order to units in vehicles.. anyways, you can get redundancy by just taking something with a similar role (meltavets or platoon commands). The platoon commands are cheaper, the vets have bs4. Do it only when you can't get another platoon command, and you really can't afford the 20 points for the veterans.

Okay. On to the actual list critique. I don't think leman russes are very good. They are awesome against infantry out in the open.. but how often does that happen? Cover is pretty ubiquitous nowadays, so the russ doesn't do a whole lot, and you have better options that can give you the same blast that is either a) higher strength (so you can pop vehicles too) or b) cheaper. Also, taking a squadron of three creates a huge target, and it's very difficult to get cover. To be honest, I would probably drop the whole squadron.

I think griffons are fine when you're tight on points.. but as I just suggested dropping 3 leman russes, you're going to have quite a chunk of points, so maybe we can look at some better options. My favorites are hydras and manticores. Both can fire be effective against tanks and infantry alike, and they can hide behind your chimeras quite easily.

Plasmas just aren't efficient for what they do, and unfortunately they can kill you as well. You have 6 plasmas- meaning you're going to overheat at least once per turn.. ouch. They're also very very expensive. I think the meltavets are fine, but because the plasmas aren't efficient, we might want to drop them so that we can have something that can sit back on our objectives, because unfortunately you're throwing your scoring units at your opponent with meltavets. I suggest infantry platoons because they are vastly cheaper than the vets, and you just want them to sit on objectives.

If you really really want 4 plasmas.. the company command squad with medipac is the place to put it. So either switch to meltas/flamers or put a medipac on the squad.

I really do like vendettas, I think they are wonderful, but a lot of times, your opponent knows exactly how good they are, and they are concentrated on very early, and its impossible for them to get cover. And unfortunately the vendettas aren't that durable either. But like I said, they are good, so if you really want to keep them, then do so. Just don't expect them to win the game for you lol

So after all of this.. I think these are your best options. One with the vendettas, and one without.

Company Command 130
2 Meltas
Flamer
Chimera HF/ML

Platoon Command 115
3 Meltas
Chimer HF/ML

Infantry Squad x4 420
Chimera HB/ML

Veteran Squad 155
3 Meltas

2 Vendettas x2 560
HB's

1 Vendetta 140
HB's

Manticore x3 480

You're going to want those HB's on the vendettas when your're tossing around 3 melta squads, 15 TL lascannons and 3D3 S10 ordance blasts. Thats gonna be a lot of dead tanks. lol

Company Command x2 280
2 Meltas
Flamer
Chimera HF/ML/Hunter killer

Platoon Command 130
3 Meltas
Flamer
Chimera HF/ML/Hunter Killer

Infantry Squad x4 460
Chimera HB/ML/Hunter Killer

Veteran Squad x2 320
Chimera HB/ML/Hunter Killer

2 Scout Sentinels x3 300
Autocannon/Hunter Killer

2 Hydras x3 510
HB/Hunter Killer

The above is a friend of mine's list. This one has 21 vehicles, now THAT is a lot. Oh and they all have hunter killers for funsies.. I like the above the best. It is really just brutal amount of firepower, silly amount of scoring units, and a lot of melta as well. It has everything really. What do you think?

Oh and.. THIS ^^ is a wall of text. Sorry. But it is all well thought out, and logical. Please don't just skip it. I hope it helps. :]

I'm using this build because I don't like the feel of those Manticores or sentiles. I also don't feel like the platoons of infantry are worth their points unless you are going all out infantry blob. But I won't be playing that unless I'm playing 2500 and up. But I do see what you mean about the Leman Russes not being perfect but I don't like any of the other options as none of them are either as cheap, have as much support fire power, or have limited shots. So I droped one, gave another heavy bolter side sponsons, and scraped the griffons cleaned and put in another vet squad with meltas. I had 5 points left over so I gaver the Company Comander melta bombs.



H.Q.180

CCS 180
Melta bombs on Company Comander
4 Plasma Guns
Chimera with Heavy Stubber


Troops 855

Veteran Squad 180
3 Plasma Guns
Chimera with heavy stubber

Veteran Squad 180
3 Plasma Guns
Chimera with heavy stubber

Veteran Squad 165
3 Meltaguns
Chimera with heavy stubber

Veteran Squad 165
3 Meltaguns
Chimera with heavy stubber

Veteran Squad 165
3 Meltaguns
Chimera with heavy stubber


Heavy Support 545

Leman Russ Battle Tank 170
Heavy Bolter side sponsons

Leman Russ Battle Tank 150

Griffon X3 225


Fast Attack 420

Vendetta Gunship 140
Heavy Bolter side sponsons

Vendetta Gunship 140
Heavy Bolter side sponsons

Vendetta Gunship 140
Heavy Bolter side sponsons

why not have some of those melta vets in the vendetta's?

and then outflank them?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
also im sorry dude but do you have a hard-on for heavy stubbers?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
also again

why not plasma cannon sponsons on the LR?

SPARTAN3ZETA1 wrote:I'm using this build because I don't like the feel of those Manticores or sentiles. I also don't feel like the platoons of infantry are worth their points unless you are going all out infantry blob. But I won't be playing that unless I'm playing 2500 and up. But I do see what you mean about the Leman Russes not being perfect but I don't like any of the other options as none of them are either as cheap, have as much support fire power, or have limited shots. So I droped one, gave another heavy bolter side sponsons, and scraped the griffons cleaned and put in another vet squad with meltas. I had 5 points left over so I gaver the Company Comander melta bombs.



H.Q.180

CCS 180
Melta bombs on Company Comander
4 Plasma Guns
Chimera with Heavy Stubber


Troops 855

Veteran Squad 180
3 Plasma Guns
Chimera with heavy stubber

Veteran Squad 180
3 Plasma Guns
Chimera with heavy stubber

Veteran Squad 165
3 Meltaguns
Chimera with heavy stubber

Veteran Squad 165
3 Meltaguns
Chimera with heavy stubber

Veteran Squad 165
3 Meltaguns
Chimera with heavy stubber


Heavy Support 545

Leman Russ Battle Tank 170
Heavy Bolter side sponsons

Leman Russ Battle Tank 150

Griffon X3 225


Fast Attack 420

Vendetta Gunship 140
Heavy Bolter side sponsons

Vendetta Gunship 140
Heavy Bolter side sponsons

Vendetta Gunship 140
Heavy Bolter side sponsons

so why are you having tank-hunters using heavy-bolter side-sponsons? Either you waste the lascannons or you waste the bolters.
melta vets in detta gunships are gay. you should use them.
Manticores are indeed very useful, the game will be decided by turn 4 or however long they have anyway, and it won't matter that they can't shoot anymore.
Or it will with your list, which is spamming the whole "must crush enemy" because if you dont you lack staying power, or at least in my opinion. But then again I think most guard lists lack staying power, because once the transports are gone, and once you're in my lines, you won't really last that long, melta, powerfists, warptime daemon princes, oblits, et cetera.
Also, i concur with the plasma cannon sponsons, heavy bolters have very little use comparatively, and I don't know why you insist on the heavy stubbers. Don't those chimera's already start with a multi-laser or something like that?

SPARTAN3ZETA1 wrote:I'm using this build because I don't like the feel of those Manticores or sentiles. I also don't feel like the platoons of infantry are worth their points unless you are going all out infantry blob. But I won't be playing that unless I'm playing 2500 and up. But I do see what you mean about the Leman Russes not being perfect but I don't like any of the other options as none of them are either as cheap, have as much support fire power, or have limited shots. So I droped one, gave another heavy bolter side sponsons, and scraped the griffons cleaned and put in another vet squad with meltas. I had 5 points left over so I gaver the Company Comander melta bombs.



H.Q.180

CCS 180
Melta bombs on Company Comander
4 Plasma Guns
Chimera with Heavy Stubber


Troops 855

Veteran Squad 180
3 Plasma Guns
Chimera with heavy stubber

Veteran Squad 180
3 Plasma Guns
Chimera with heavy stubber

Veteran Squad 165
3 Meltaguns
Chimera with heavy stubber

Veteran Squad 165
3 Meltaguns
Chimera with heavy stubber

Veteran Squad 165
3 Meltaguns
Chimera with heavy stubber


Heavy Support 545

Leman Russ Battle Tank 170
Heavy Bolter side sponsons

Leman Russ Battle Tank 150

Griffon X3 225


Fast Attack 420

Vendetta Gunship 140
Heavy Bolter side sponsons

Vendetta Gunship 140
Heavy Bolter side sponsons

Vendetta Gunship 140
Heavy Bolter side sponsons

I like it, couple suggestions though:

Drop all the heavy stubbers, they're a drop in the ocean compared to your other anti-infantry firepower. LRBT's with heavy bolter sponsons are not a good idea, they let your opponent play wound allocation games. Use the heavy stubber points to give both LRBT's plasma cannon sponsons. Plasma cannon sponsons almost double a LRBT's firepower, and also allow the tank to penetrate TEQ armor. I haven't tried griffons out yet, but they seem like a cost effective way to put anti-infantry firepower into a list.

I'm not a big fan of heavy bolters on vendettas, they're really only useful if you're shooting at infantry, as they can only glance AV11 and have a hard time wounding most MC's. I would recommend dropping the heavy bolter sponsons and using the points to give the plasma vet squads autocannons. The plasma vet squads are usually going to be sitting back for a turn or 2 anyways, and this lets them help bust open transports while they wait. This change is really only personal preference though, I know some people swear by vendettas with heavy bolter sponsons.

Don't be so quick to write off infantry platoons, an infantry squad with an autocannon can serve as a cheap objective holder or bubblewrap unit. You don't need infantry squads to make a list work, but they aren't just empty points either. Just something to think about.

I would strongly recommend against running melta vets in a vendetta, they do not work well together. Vendettas are gunships, they want to stay at close to max range, plunking away at vehicles and MC's. Melta vets want to get up close and personal, as soon as possible. Always buy melta vets a chimera; if you get second turn, deploy them in the chimera. If you get first turn and think an alpha strike is possible, deploy the melta vets in the vendetta and scout it forward. If you're playing an artillery heavy list, then deploy the melta vets in the vendetta and outflank them.

That's a whole lot of plasma in the command squad and not have a medic. Just saying...

If the vendettas are for popping tanks drop the H bolters. if you want to have a flier that is for hurting infantry switch a vendetta for a valkyrie. Because in the first few turns when you are firing the lascannons at tanks the H bolters will either be firing ineffectively or not at all.

For elites I agree with using psyker battle squads. Save them until the end of the shooting phase and make a unit that took 25% run like chicken after failing their LD2 test.

Interesting list, I'd like to hear how it plays in testing if you get the chance. BTW Nice avatar, lots have people have been using it since I stopped posting here a few years back ;p

I noticed a recuring theme telling me to drop the heavy stubers so I did so and it alowed me to follow up on a couple of suggestions. I gave my CCS a medi-pack and put plasma cannons on both my LRBT. To zmc. Thanks. I use it on most forums I vist.



H.Q. 200

CCS 200
Veteran with Medi-Pack
4 Plasma Guns
Krak Grenades
Chimera


Troops 805

Veteran Squad 170
3 Plasma Guns
Chimera

Veteran Squad 170
3 Plasma Guns
Chimera

Veteran Squad 155
3 Meltaguns
Chimera

Veteran Squad 155
3 Meltaguns
Chimera

Veteran Squad 155
3 Meltaguns
Chimera


Heavy Support 605

Leman Russ Battle Tank 190
Plasma Cannon side sponsons

Leman Russ Battle Tank 190
Plasma Cannon side sponsons

Griffon X3 225


Fast Attack 390

Vendetta Gunship 130

Vendetta Gunship 130

Vendetta Gunship 130

i like this list alot. alot of scoring units, and a ton of fire power.

now make a 1k list so that i can tear it up with my DE 2morrow

Already posted one fool

I do not believe you can have a medpack and 4 plasma guns in a CCS.

I like full on all powerful guard CCS. Like Straken, Nork Deddog, some other stuff and a Chimera, to batter anything.

Sarge wrote:I do not believe you can have a medpack and 4 plasma guns in a CCS.

Sarge is correct, veterans can only have one piece of kit. 4 plasma guns is better than a medic and 3 plasma guns IMO, you want to frontload your damage as much as possible because vets in rapid fire range are probably going to get smoked if they don't kill whatever they're firing at. Use the medic points to buy an astropath (outflanking vendettas to keep them safe if you get second turn or to take shots at side armour is a good idea) or to put an autocannon in 3 vet squads (you need to pop transports before they deliver troops into your lines, and BS4 autocannons help supplement your vendettas).

Thanks. I was not aware that of that. I'm going to get an astropath as jcage suggested.