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Hello all! I've been a long time lurker of these forums, and now I plan on actually participating! Fancy that! Anyways, my latest foray has been my acceptance of my love of tanks and the obvious diving into Guard. At the moment, most everything is borrowed from a friend (only a platoon and codex are mine...) but more will come, I'm sure of it. My first test of Guard was in a 1500 point battle with Chaos Space Marines.

A note about the list: It was made with using only models I have in mind. In the end, I proxied the Sentinels. But, I got to use my new Killa Kans! So, all is well.

HQ
----
Lord Commissar - Boltgun, Power Fist, Carapace Armor, Chimera (145)

Troops
--------
Platoon Command Squad - Medi-Pack, Standard, Heavy Flamer, Vox Caster (255)
Infantry Squad - Plasma Gun, Vox Caster, Krak Grenades
Infantry Squad - Plasma Gun, Krak Grenades

Platoon Command Squad - Medi-Pack, Standard, Heavy Flamer, Vox Caster (220)
Infantry Squad - Melta, Vox Caster, Krak Grenades
Infantry Squad - Melta, Krak Grenades

Fast Attack
-------------
Armored Sentinel Squadron (3) - 3x Lascannons, Camo Netting (220)

Heavy Support
-----------------
Leman Russ Battle Tank - Lascannon, Plasma Sponsons, Heavy Stubber
Leman Russ Battle Tank - Lascannon, Plasma Sponsons, Heavy Stubber
Leman Russ Demolisher - Lascannon, Plasma Sponsons, Heavy Stubber

After typing this list, I noticed I forgot about both the Heavy Stubbers and the Lord's CHIMERA. *facepalm* Oh well. The game was a tie, as we played objectives and by turn 5 all troops were dead. He played a standard mix of shooty and assaulting, with Berserkers, Oblits, tank hunting Raptors, Lash Daemon Prince, etc.

So, what do you all think?

Take a single platoon and then a Vet squad for your troops. Vets in Chimera's with 3 Meltaguns are infuriating.

Drop a Leman Russ for a Leman Russ Executioner, I hate this variant the most as it rips through massed units. Some other players here will probably disagree with me here but as an Ork player, I really hate the 5 templates on my boyz squads. As opposed to the Vanilla and demolisher variants.

Vendettas/Valkyries are another bastard of unit, stick a vet squad in there and have it dash in the 2nd last turn for an unoccupied objective and then drop the vets onto it next turn to claim it.

OK, welcome to the site. Eyclonus is right about the veterans in chimeras with 3 meltaguns - in a tank-heavy IG army, they're one of the best ways to kill heavy tanks. I mean, there's even an abbreviation, meltavets, so you know they're good!

I think if you want an agressive IG list, using plenty of tanks, most people either go with no platoons at all (using only veteran squads in chimeras) or with one platoon, kitted out with heavy weapons to hold your home objective and provide supporting fire. There are a couple problems with your platoons as they are now. PCS shouldn't have standards, only the CCS-level regimental standard is worth it. Likewise medipacks are a bit of a waste - think about it, 30 points to keep a 30 point squad alive longer? Not a good use of point. Squads don't really need voxcasters unless you have a CCS with the same upgrade, I think the benefits are only big if you have a foot-heavy list with orders going around the whole force. Weapon choices in your platoon also seem a bit odd to me. I'd take a platoon with a heavy weapon team in each squad, personally. Maybe a GL as well. Plasma and meltaguns are often considered a bit inefficient on slow-moving, BS3 infantry squads, since they need to be within 12" to work well. A cheap platoon full of GLs and autocannons can put out some dakka at range, which chimera-mounted squads can't do. Krak grenades, also, should only be put on squads that go chase the enemy - and why would you want to do that with infantry, when you could have mechanised squads?

Lord Commissar is frankly a mistake (IMO) - a CCS with a regimental standard gives plenty of morale reinforcement, and can also carry a load of powerful special weapons. CCS+chimera+standard+3 meltas = 150 points, and I think it will do far more damage than a single S3 T3 character.

Armoured sentinels, also, are just worse than scout sentinels. It's a big armour increase, but compare them to a similar armoured chassis - in this case, vendettas. If you want armour 12 and lascannons from your fast attack slots, go with one of those. If you really like the idea of sentinels, I would take scouts instead. With lascannons, or autocannons+HK missiles, they can outflank for a serious shot at opponents' side armour.

Heavy support - first of all, lose the stubbers. You've loaded the tanks with AP2-3 goodness, then put on a weedy machine gun? Lascannons and plasma sponsons are a matter of taste. Frankly, at this points level, I think it's smarter to leave them off, and get more tanks on the field.

Suggestions:
Replace Lord Commissar with a weapon'd-up CCS.
Drop one Platoon, retool the other for long-range fire, stripped of most upgrades.
Add 1-2 squads of veterans in chimeras with 3 melta- or plasma-guns.
Downgrade armoured sentinels to outflanking scouts, OR replace with vendetta
Strip tanks of sponsons etc, invest in another leman russ/hellhound/artillery piece. (this is optional, but highly recommended)

Hope that helps, good luck with the army!

Thanks for the helpful posts!

I must admit, many of the choices like the Lord and the upgrades are mostly me trying to stretch to a 1500 points list with my limited models. But, I agree on most all of the changes.

Next list will have Scout sentinels. The extra armor did nothing and the outflank would have been perfect.

The plasma sponsons were actually a MVP of the battle. Of course, my luck with the small blasts was amazing. Definately will try out an Executioner next.

The Lord will defiantely be replaced by a CCS. The imagery of a Lord Commissar with a PF standing up to a Daemon Prince (even if he never assaulted due to the Prince dying to massed Lascannon fire. ) But, I can easily put Commissar in other places.

As for Vets, I'll definitely have to proxie up some things...and get a Chirmera (Rhinos will do in a pinch, I guess...) An excuse to get more tanks is a good excuse.

I'll make an updated list soon.

All I have to say is that the list is actually ok. But for the about the same points as your lord commissar you should get a CCS instead. and alos put vox casters in all your infantry squads.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
All I have to say is that the list is actually ok. But for the about the same points as your lord commissar you should get a CCS instead. and alos put vox casters in all your infantry squads.

PrivateNorval wrote:All I have to say is that the list is actually ok. But for the about the same points as your lord commissar you should get a CCS instead. and alos put vox casters in all your infantry squads.

Mhm. The Lord was a place holder. Command Squad should be the next step, perhaps...

As for the Vox Casters, I fused the infantry squads of both platoons so I only needed one Vox. Is this legal? Also, if say I got the upgrade for Krak Grenades (Not that that's a decent choice, but just for kicks) with one squad and combined it with another that DIDN'T have the upgrade, would everyone have Kraks?

Negative, only the one squad gets the kraks, but one vox is good if you combine.

Welcome to Dakka, you've got a good core for an IG army there. I'd agree pretty much with what everyone has suggested. I can relate with trying to stretch lists by throwing on upgrades, but it's not a good thing for IG. 'Trim the fat' as they say around here. If it isn't a gun, be wary about taking it... vox + standards + medics + kraks + heavy stubbers = 140 pts or thereabouts - you can get lots of men with guns for that...

I would say the combined squads with a single vox works, the grenades not so much. With the grenades each model counts as being equipped so you would probably have to keep track of who had them and who didn't.
Did you have another unit riding in the chimera with the commissar? it seems kind of funny that he can get one as a transport and technically have a full transport for himself (guess it'd be pretty roomy that way).

Having read the Tactica, I'd seriously consider dropping half the stuff off the PCS. Also for ease of playing in games try making all the squads in a platoon uniform. When your deep in a game, its terrible to mistake the anti-tank unit for the anti-MEQ unit and have them waste shots on a Tactical Squad.

Updated List:

HQ
----
Company Command Squad - (200)
(Chimera, Medi-Pack, Vox Caster, Standard, Meltagun, Plasma Gun, Carapace Armor)

Troops
--------
Platoon Command Squad - Heavy Flamer, Vox Caster (190)
Infantry Squad - Plasma Gun, Vox Caster
Infantry Squad - Plasma Gun

Platoon Command Squad - Heavy Flamer, Vox Caster (180)
Infantry Squad - Melta, Vox Caster
Infantry Squad - Melta

Fast Attack
-------------
Scout Sentinel Squadron (3) - 3x Lascannons (150)

Heavy Support
-----------------
Leman Russ Battle Tank Squadron (2) - 2x Lascannon, 2x Plasma Sponsons - (410)

Leman Russ Executioner - Lascannon, Plasma Sponsons - (245)

Basilisk (125)

Total: 1500 exact

General idea would be to combined the infantry squads to make 2 20 man squads to make better use of Vox Casters and to beef up the poor guardsmen. The CCS would be riding around in the Chimera, providing fire support and extra orders as seen fit. The rest is really just heavy artillery, with the 3 Leman Russ and a Basilisk. The outflanking Sentinels would be the coup de grace.

Considering most of my foes are often Space Marines (Chaos and normal) as well as Necrons, I think I am well armed against them. Hopefully I will add some Heavy Weapons teams as I get them (expensive little things...) and I want to try out both Techpriests (with their Plasma Cannon arms ) and possibily adding my Sisters of Battle and an Inquisitor.

Either way, thanks for the help so far. Hopefully I can test out this list this weekend.

Try this:
HQ
CCS, 3 Meltaguns, Vox Caster, Carapace Armour, Chimera - 160

Troops
PCS, 3 Grenade Launchers, Vox Caster - 50
3x Infantry Squads, Grenade Launchers, Autocannons, Vox Casters - 210

2x Veteran Squads, 3 Meltaguns, Vox Caster, Chimera - 320

Fast Attack
3x Scout Sentinels with Lascannons - 150

Heavy Support
Leman Russ Executioner with Plasma Cannon Sponsons - 230

Leman Russ Vanilla with Plasma Cannon Sponsons - 190

Leman Russ Vanilla with Plasma Cannon Sponsons - 190

Use the platoon to hold objectives and surge forward with everything else.

Eyclonus' list is an improvement over your revised list IMO. I think a squadron of 2 pumped-up tanks is far too expensive, inefficient and vulnerable. I'd never squadron anything more expensive than 2xnaked demolishers (330 points) and even then not until I'd filled all other available FA and HS slots.

Your foot platoons are still a bit of a mess. You've got short-ranged, powerful, expensive special weapons on squishy BS3 footsloggers. Try taking 4 meltas (or 3 and a HF) on a PCS, but they really, really, really need to be in a chimera for this to work. Infantry squads should have a heavy weapon first, then a long-range special weapon (AC/GL or AC/PG works well - Ecylonus has some examples in his list).

CCS - I think medipacks and carapace are a waste on a squad that already has a chimera - on a foot squad, I wouldn't advise it, but on a chimera, you've already paid 55 points to protect the squad, why pay 50 pts more? That's 50 points on a 50 point squad, and a lot of weapons will cut through the armour and FNP anyway. Never mix weapons in a squad, decide on melta OR plasma, not both. (also, you have too many upgrades - voxman, standard bearer, medic, and 2 special weapons makes 5 men, only 4 can carry upgrades)

Summary: Strip down CCS (i recommend either vox or standard, and 3 specials.
Heavy weapons for infantry, standards and focussed special weapons for PCSs.
Strip down tanks (lascannons are an overpriced upgrade) and lose the extra, squadroned tank.

Hope that helps. Sorry if my advice sounded harsh, but one very strong principle of IG armies - foot troops need heavy weapons to stay back and shoot, mechanised troops need maximum special weapons to dig out the enemy. Upgrades need to be very carefully analysed for cost. Squadrons should be avoided until you just need the space in the organisation chart.

Thanks for the advice! Really, this stuff is hardly harsh, in fact it does open my eyes on the game in general. I must admit, I love my upgrades. >_> And, though I do enjoy odd lists that experiment with lack luster things, I do see the importance of streamlining lists for better success.

The reasons I have yet to add Heavy Weapons team is because I don't have them and they are a bit expensive for that little bit of the army. But, I do admit, it's becoming near impossible to avoid them. Which isn't that bad, honestly.

Also, I've been adamant about Medic, Standard and Vox because the models are built like that. XD Both of my command squads have standards, and I have like 4 voxs. >_<

Also, I started 40k with orcs, so I'm used to tooling things out (Nobs) and being fine with crappy balisitc skill. (My sisters of Battle are my only saving grace from shoddy BS! XD)

Well, I'm going to play a game or two today, test out some things, maybe add Sisters, I dunno. Either way, I'll be back with a list that fits a bit better.