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Hi'a guys and gals,
i've made a few posts here and there, mostly busy with repainting, modeling projects and general life to just now be learning all the rule changes that have been going on. I mostly played back in 3rd edition and now picking up a 5'th edition Space Marine Codex and glancing at other books, i've seen much has changed.

One thing in particular is i used to field a Callidus Assassin to bolster / off set my mostly heavy hitting long range SM roster i have. From what i've kind'a seen around the forum and various internets, is that Assassin guild choices are Demon hunters / Inquisitor units?

I'd pick up the book at my local hobby store if they had one in stock and i'd ask the local gamers if any of them had played anything other then Tyranids, Chaos, and what ever the hell " Movie Marines " are.

Sorry if this question has been posted already, i did do a half assed try at finding it...but eagerness to dust off my old bolter, i decided to ask you all instead of stumbling through the forum.

Yes, Daemon or Witchhunters both has Assasins in them. If you pick up the codex (daemon hunters is the more common one, if you can find it!) it states how to induct DH / WH into your army.

Movie Marines - pdf of "fluff" marines. Each one is S6 T6, 2 wounds, rerollable 3+ armour save, etc. They realeaqsed it a few years ago for a bit of fun

Thank you much for the info.

Check your PMs for info on WH / DH

Also note the WH codex has been removed from GW shelves the strong implication of that is they are the next new codex (after Cheese Angels and their invincible Landraiders). At which point I'd imagine new rules for the calidus assassin and as is usually the case they will be better. So it might be worth waiting a couple of months while you build the rest of your army.

my army was built hell almost 10 years ago, just repainting them, due to age comes patience and skill up. Just giving them a nice polished look. Yeah i heard from the fellas i met while i visited the local game shop, that BA were going to be able to field 9 dreadnoughts and have a "flying?" land raider that holds a squad + dreadnought. I know i've been out of the loop and there maybe point/state balances but that just seems rediculous.

I've manged to get new codex's of Space Marines *generic*, Tyranids, Daemon Hunters, and Witch Hunters from Scribd.com.

are there any other 5e codex's out? Well i know DH and WH arn't 5e. But had the assassin info i was after.

Blood Angels will basically be out soon as those Dreads they can field can potentially have infinite attacks. They just keep going (hitting on 3+ with Ws5/6 and wounding on 2+ with re-rolls with either 5 or 4 attacks on the charge depending on DC or Furioso) until they fail to hit and wound.

On average a Furiso will kill about 8 Marines on the charge!!! Which translates to about 5-6 Terminators!! A Death Company one even more!!!

And the flying Landraider thing can carry jump pack troops as well!!!

They are pretty discusting and basically have no disadvantages compared to normal marines.

FlingitNow wrote:Blood Angels will basically be out soon as those Dreads they can field can potentially have infinite attacks. They just keep going (hitting on 3+ with Ws5/6 and wounding on 2+ with re-rolls with either 5 or 4 attacks on the charge depending on DC or Furioso) until they fail to hit and wound.

On average a Furiso will kill about 8 Marines on the charge!!! Which translates to about 5-6 Terminators!! A Death Company one even more!!!

And the flying Landraider thing can carry jump pack troops as well!!!

They are pretty discusting and basically have no disadvantages compared to normal marines.

Except, ya know, Points cost, and the fact Deep Striking Landraiders Mishap so often it's not funny, and that Death Company Drads waste a precious Troops slot with a non scoring unit (more when you facotr in you need to take Death Company as well to take them, who are also a Non Scoring Troops)..

A heads up on the DH, WH. It's commonly perceived that the allies will be removed from the next codex which is roughly 1 year away (give or take a bit). So if you are going to plan on buying models, keep that in mind.

Apart from that, its good to come back after a while right? I had a decade gap myself until a few years ago.

Start playing with toy soldiers -> discover beer and women (or man, Kiwi's don't judge) -> get settled with woman -> go back to playing with toy soldiers

Except, ya know, Points cost, and the fact Deep Striking Landraiders Mishap so often it's not funny, and that Death Company Drads waste a precious Troops slot with a non scoring unit (more when you facotr in you need to take Death Company as well to take them, who are also a Non Scoring Troops)..

Non of these are disadvantages compared to Vanilla marines. The LRs cost the same and you don't HAVE to DS them so don't. Likewise the DC dreads and DC are further options not available to Vanilla marines so that they are not scoring in a troops slot is not a disadvantage as you have all the scoring opitons Vanillas and have more. It might be a reason not to take the units but it is not a disadvantage of eth army compared to Vanillas.

Points are the same for all options except the transports and now fast vehicles which for me are well worth it I'd love to pay the extra points to make my razorbacks fast and my Preds and Vindicators. Yes they cost more but for me it would be an option I'd always take if it was open to Vanilla marines.

Even the red thirst is no disadvantage because it inexplicably doesn't give the unit rage.

The only disadavantage BA have compared to Vanilla marines is the LRs are not a HS option. Other than that they get everything Vanilla's get and more and have better options.

FlingitNow wrote: Other than that they get everything Vanilla's get and more and have better options.

I can't wait to see all those Blood Angels Thunderfire Cannons, Blood Angels Land Speeder Storms and Blood Angel Master of the Forge's tearing up the tournament scene then!

I can't wait to see all those Blood Angels Thunderfire Cannons, Blood Angels Land Speeder Storms and Blood Angel Master of the Forge's tearing up the tournament scene then!

Don't they get those options. Well I suppose that is something. But it does feel lik ethe codex was written with a have you cake and eat it approach and a return to eth old days when the Chapter specific codex were just Ultramarines plus a whole load of stuff.

They also don't get Honour guard. Well they have a unit called honour guard but it is basically the same as a command squad rather than the honour guard of the SMs.

But you surely do see my point that they are not the most balanced codex release ever. Unlike 'Nids and IG which still have draw backs the BA seem to be made out of the same cheese as the puppies.

FlingitNow wrote:

I can't wait to see all those Blood Angels Thunderfire Cannons, Blood Angels Land Speeder Storms and Blood Angel Master of the Forge's tearing up the tournament scene then!

Don't they get those options. Well I suppose that is something. But it does feel lik ethe codex was written with a have you cake and eat it approach and a return to eth old days when the Chapter specific codex were just Ultramarines plus a whole load of stuff.

They also don't get Honour guard. Well they have a unit called honour guard but it is basically the same as a command squad rather than the honour guard of the SMs.

But you surely do see my point that they are not the most balanced codex release ever. Unlike 'Nids and IG which still have draw backs the BA seem to be made out of the same cheese as the puppies.

I disagree with the Puppies comment. SW lose a LOT of things when compared to Ultras.

Yeah SWs are a totally different army compared to Vanilla marines but they are also a very OP army like the BA. BA are also basically like the Ultramarines but with loads of extra goodies (like all the chapter codexes used to be).

I mean the smurfs are a competitive army and the BA get all their best options plus a load more. Where as Puppies are a completely diffferent army just made out of win.

Yeah with my luck my option to field an assassin * who was my melee backbone for my SM set up i had * i was planning on picking up a set or two of assult termies , thinking on leaning towards lightning claws, but did some searching and I'm going to try to magnatize the arms.

My second army used to by tyranids but my roommate is getting into wh40k with me and he pick nids and i was going to let him use some of my old models... old like Homogaunts are pewter Aliens models, LoL. So i was thinking of doing necron, back when i used to play no one seemed to play them and now days im not sure if thats still the case. I don't have a problem with playing vanilla marines but something that's slightly different then the rest would be nice.

And only chaos models i own are a squad of plague marines i bought just for small missions scenarios and well for painting fun.

but def. not Blood Angels, from what i keep hearing and reading im hoping its rumors or misreads, why miss balance them so. my only guess is the spike new model sales. I know that's a tad cynical.

So i'll finish up my Space Marines and also get to finish my small Necron army.

If you take assault Terminators never ever take Lightening claws. Lightening claws are better against hordes than TH/SS against anything else the TH/SS will do much better (I had a unit lead by Marneas chew through a Bloodthirster before being charged by 3 Soulgrinders and taking them all out). So if you give you Termmie LCs to improve their anti-horde do you wantthem up against hordes? Again no as Hordes (like massed firepower) are one of the few things that Terminators are really scared off they also don't have enough attacks to be a serious threat to a horde (point for point) and no sweeping advance mean they will just get tarpitted. None of this is good for your assault Terminators. You want them facing up to other Deathstars things like Nob bikers, Seer councils, Howling banshees, MCs high powers ICs etc none of which the LC Terminators will cut it against.

Go all TH/SS all the time every time.

BA doesn't have null zone...

BA are fine and not any better than normal marines, just different.

BA are fine and not any better than normal marines, just different.

They're not really different just better

I mean fnP TH/SS Termies is the thing nightmares are made out of. BAs are a more competitive army than Vanilla marines whether or not they are quite as good as SWs remains to be seen (I'm guessing not quite). But still more competitive than normal marines with loads of pluses and almost no minuses compared to Vanillas.

thanx so much for in info... didn't realize termies can't sweeping advance... well im off to work, just realy need to bone up my melee before i get back into it... atm i have the assassin * need to convert an inquisitor * , Librarian, Chaplain and a 5 member assult squad. Not realy anything able to fend off too much.

hope to read more when i get home.

fnp gets negated by the majority of stuff you would shoot at them. You just can't torrent them down as easily. Besides you can still kill the priest and then torrent down the squad.

fnp gets negated by the majority of stuff you would shoot at them. You just can't torrent them down as easily.

Hammernators have a 3++ save torrent fire is pretty much the only way to get rid of them. Why fire 1 Lascannon at them when they are still getting a 3+ save? You are unlikley to have enough AP2 weaponry to seriously worry them (unless you've got lots of demolisher cannons).

Just the kill the preist hey? Easier said than done.

Do the priests even have an invulnerable save?

Do the priests even have an invulnerable save?

Not as standard not entirely sure exactly what wargear they can take, but in most cases why would they need one being hidden in a squad of TH/SS Terminators in a Landriader the chances of them having to take an Invulnerable save are pretty slim.

Any dedicated close combat unit? Like a squad of 5 regular TH/SS terminators?

Yea, its going to be a pretty even fight.

Yeah another unit of TH/SS terminators would be a very even fight (exactly even infact) but they are far more susceptible to being shot up before they get there hence why the FnP guys are better.

A unit of blade storming DAs would put s serious dent in a unit of TH/SS Terminators but the FnP ones would largely shrug it off (with guide and doom obviously). That can be the critical turn between their first charge and their next target when they are out in the open.

FnP really gets rid of the one major weakness that TH/SS Terminators have. Not saying they are going to be auto win but they are already one of if not the best units in the game and giving them FnP is just sickening.

Well they still need a landraider to keep them mobile and the dual raider lists even at 1850/2000 are generally just 1 trick ponies.

Really I am not to frightened of the new book. Their scariest army is probably going to be 50+ assault marines (or variant assault marines) the majority of which have feel no pain.

FlingitNow wrote:

fnp gets negated by the majority of stuff you would shoot at them. You just can't torrent them down as easily.

Hammernators have a 3++ save torrent fire is pretty much the only way to get rid of them. Why fire 1 Lascannon at them when they are still getting a 3+ save? You are unlikley to have enough AP2 weaponry to seriously worry them (unless you've got lots of demolisher cannons).

Just the kill the preist hey? Easier said than done.

Just to be a RPS jerk, one word: Guard.

Yea FRFSRF-ing a 20 man blob into them is brutal, youll be surprised how many 1s come up on 30+ saves, count in the fact that termies usually come in small units and have only 1 wound and the FNP wouldnt be so bad either with all the allocation the priest would deffinetly get some and then... you rank the next blob

Yea FRFSRF-ing a 20 man blob into them is brutal

Lets assume they are in rapidfire range:

60 shots - 30 hits - 10 wounds - less than 2 failed saves - 1 dead

Not what I'd call Brutal. The FnP gives you that 2nd chance we've all rolled 4 1s out of 8 saves before I'm sure (heck I seem to do that most games :(), but fnP means you get a 2nd bite at the apple and with that much bad luck from the first 8 dice you're probably due some good luck in the next 4 rather than that being your entire squad annihilated by one bad roll of dice.

Your taking math too seriously i've yet to killing at least one term by ranking, fact of the matter is i might just be a lucky roller or perhaps the fact that theres plasmas in that squad helped too. Still there are better ways to deal with deathstar units, like isolation or tarpitting, that leave you free to deal with an enemy who now has not only a numbers disadvantage but a points one too because when termies spend 3+ turns to deal with those IG and they're commie you've practically taken them out of the game.

In fact the lots of assault marines list sounds far scarier to me since those assaults can DS backfield with theyr meltas and sergant weapon, bringing the fight to you, multyply that by 3 or 4 and your stuck fighting on theyr terms, a tactic made even better by the whole Descent of Angels thing.