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Necrons have a lot of problems, this is true. I'd like to fix as many things as possible without screwing up the feel of the army too much.

Here we go:

Phase out: It stays, we need some sort of vulnerability to compensate for the Monolith's relative immortality.
WBB: Stays, and in its current incarnation.

Gauss weaponry: No more autoglances. Instead, all Gauss weapons are rending.

Warriors: Dropped to 15 points.

Flayed Ones: Moved to troops, gain fleet and rending, stay at 18 points.

Immortals: Same, except moved to 25 points.

Destroyers: Same

Heavy Destroyers: S10 AP1 weapon, same points.

Wraiths: Count as MCs that move 12 and can't turbo-boost. squad size of 5. 50 points each.

Tomb Sypders: 45 points

Pariahs, same cost but count as Necrons.

Monolith: Can fire both particle whip and flux projectors if it remains stationary.

Thoughts?

Souns good to me, I'd like to add that we actually need more models anyway, i think if flayed got moved to troops people who had bought lot's fo metal ones would get pissed off, hence it would be better to just make a new troop. Good list of improvements for what we have atm though, also I think take out C'tan and make Necron Lords transform into C'tan.

Wraiths (alternate): ST: 5 I: 5 power weapons, 2 wounds, unit size 3-6 (or 3-9 like nid warriors/ravenors) 40pts.

Just an alternative. Though I've played against Necrons many times, I've never played as them so make of that what you will.

Ostrakon wrote:
Monolith: Can fire both particle whip and flux projectors if it remains stationary.

I thought we could already do this?

Im not a fan of wraiths being MCs that move 12...I like their speed and their ability to turboboost (especially though terrain)...Im more for what zeshin said...power weapons would be a better bet as well as extra wounds OR bigger squad sizes...thats what i dislike about them now...the small squad sizes...

Shake Zoola wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:
Monolith: Can fire both particle whip and flux projectors if it remains stationary.

I thought we could already do this?

Nope, the Particle Whip is an Ordnance weapon so will be the only weapon allowed to fire if you choose to fire it

Phase out: It stays, we need some sort of vulnerability to compensate for the Monolith's relative immortality.
WBB: Stays, and in its current incarnation.

Gauss weaponry: No more autoglances. Instead, all Gauss weapons are rending. - No, this is OP, especially combined with immortals as troops, the amount of rending shots being thrown around would be rediculous.

Warriors: Dropped to 15 points. - Sounds good

Flayed Ones: Moved to troops, gain fleet and rending, stay at 18 points. - Haven't played Vs them much but this doesn't sound too bad

Immortals: Same, except moved to 25 points.

Destroyers: Same

Heavy Destroyers: S10 AP1 weapon, same points. - No, A str 10 AP1 gun is hard to find, be it the hyper sonic Railgun or the immense warpcraft of a zoanthrope. Maybe make it S9 AP2 (Like a lascannon)

Wraiths: Count as MCs that move 12 and can't turbo-boost. squad size of 5. 50 points each. Even at 50 points a piece MC's with that high I & a 3+ invulnv, no again OP, mainly because all their attacks then ignore armor & roll 2d6 for pen, especially if they are moving 12"

Tomb Sypders: 45 points - Again good

Pariahs, same cost but count as Necrons. - No Pariahs are NOT necrons, they are a combination of pariah-gene having humans & necron tech to clarify, Necron = robot all can be repaired. Pariah = android, Human squishy bits cannot be fixed with WBB.

Monolith: Can fire both particle whip and flux projectors if it remains stationary. - Sounds good

I like some of these ideas but others are a little OTT balance it out a little better IMO. I know it's hard to avoid giving your army what they "need" and not what you want them to have. I've been guilty of it myself a few times.

If heavy destroyers stayed the same point cost and went to a S10 AP 1 that would be ridiculous. For aroud the price of an Executioner you get 3 s10 ap1 shots. Forget the 'lith I would take 9 of those. All armor would be gone by turn 2.

hyperviper6 wrote:If heavy destroyers stayed the same point cost and went to a S10 AP 1 that would be ridiculous. For aroud the price of an Executioner you get 3 s10 ap1 shots. Forget the 'lith I would take 9 of those. All armor would be gone by turn 2.

H.Destroyers have only 1 shot.

Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:

H.Destroyers have only 1 shot.

But an executioner costs about as much as 3 H. Destroyers IIRC.

On phase out, it should either go away, or be significantly changed. Or at the least really compensated for. Your opponent only having to beat 75% of your army, not including anything that is really useful but doesn't count toward being a necron, is really limiting. Yeah, they're tough, but not as tough say as trying to take down an equivalent point value of plague marines, where you have to get rid of everything to table your foe.

Points need to be reworked across the board. Most things in light of recent codex releases are rather overpriced. A few might be underpriced. Which are which is open to debate.

WBB needs to at least be reworded so it's not as complicated to all the people who cant seem to figure it out. And reworked so it's a bit more useful. FNP has it's advantages as an alternative, but definitely has a different feel to it. I personally like the frustration on my opponents face when they get back up, as opposed to less falling. It seems to irk them more.

Gauss is fine being able to wound everything and autoglance vehicles, but if they aren't going to increase the roll on the vehicle chart, then they need more anti-tank. And with all the armor showing up nowadays, a lot more of it.

Options for extra mobility. The battlefield nowadays has a lot more options for people moving around, and while destroyers are a good counter, I'd rather not be limited to just them for it. Heck, even if you give them something that makes it difficult/dangerous terrain for a jetbike/jump infantry/skimmer to go over a necron unit, so that you could limit your foes movement, that'd be something. Just odd that Necrons can out-move you in space, but are easily outrun and outranged on ground. Doesn't really seem to match the superior technology bit..

Extra tanks please. The one is nice, but other options would be welcome. Perhaps some "flying" answer to the vendetta, I doubt the Necrons would have ignored Air Superiority in their march to eradicate life everywhere. If they had, they'd have run into problems against the first group that used it. Eventually they'd have learned.

You want more specific thoughts?

Wraiths, reduce to 30-35 pts, allow up to 10 in a unit. Their current stats sound bad, but people still get their armor save. Now they can bounce more attacks off of SM armor. Or, keep about where they are (but please as a multiple of 5 for easy math and list building) and give them warscythes. Sounds more appropriate for the fluff. Heck, make them 50pts then. And now it'll sound a lot more like the fluff.

Pariahs - Improve armor to 2+, and give them FNP, increase cost appropriately, or 2 wounds and eternal warrior. Include something like a limited version of the solar pulse as a unit upgrade so they have the ability to get closer under the hail of S10 AP2 that is going to be coming in at them. Keep the I where it is, so that others have an option of going first.

Immortals - MC's with varying weapon options/loadouts for different roles. Or as dread equivalents. Failing that, keep as a tough unit, but allow several different weapon options spread throughout the squad. Couple gauss cannons, a template weapon or two, indirect firing weapon, etc.

Flayed ones, come with rending, upgrade to power weapons for low cost. Make their terrifying visage useful. Right now it's ignored by virtually anyone who'd want to get in CC with them anyhow, or your need to tie up from getting to other units.

Swarms - ok as is. Maybe, maybe, give rending for about 5-6 pts per model. Considering their stats, it shouldn't be a problem for anyone but tau and IG gunlines. Actually, considering the cost of a unit of daemonettes from chaos daemon codex, it might be a bit overpriced as the stats are much lower, no invulnerable save.

Destroyers - more options for shooting. The cannons are nice, AP3, maybe with fewer shots, would be nicer. Perhaps an option for S5 ap4 small blasts assault 1, no cover save, reduced range. How about letting them combine their fire, if they don't move, into a heavy 20 shooting. A few more shots, but keeps them in place.

Hvy Destroyers - S10 AP1 Assault 3 Lance, small blast, melta. Just kidding. Sorta. After seeing s10 ap 1 lance in the nid dex, it's only sorta. True its a bit overpowered, but the 9/2 seems a bit pale in comparison for the points, and at 9/2 gauss seems redundant/useless. So an upgrade is definitely in order. So 10 1 is good, melta is good, increasing the shots is good, making them blasts is good, any combination would be better. All would be overpowered, I only said it to draw attention to the discussion, and the thought of the looks of horror on peoples faces... But then again, fluff says that their ancient technology is still supposed to be more advanced than anything else currently available...

Monolith, pretty much good as is. Just clean up the rules a bit so theirs less discussion/argument. Points are fine if phase out is going to stick around and only necrons count. Each one is a huge chunk out of your available necrons, meaning easier to phase out.

Spyders - recent rumors indicate different versions, I'm up for that. Never actually used them, so, eh...

I woouldn't mind H. Destroyers getting more shots / melta / blast, or even lance at current stats. I don't know what it is, just in my mind 10/1 is the ultimate tank killer & not every army should have access to one (Though GW seems content to give every new dex better & better anti tank)

Okay

Rending replacing current gauss rules sounds scary, but mathematically it's not really OP at all, especially if we factor in Phaseout. It adds like one extra casualty per 10 shots and even then that only applies against MEQ armies, which 'crons unfairly struggle against now. That and it still - as designed - lets any gauss weaponry function as anti-vehicle occasionally. Instead of auto-glance you'll get either nothing if the AV is too high (warriors would even be able to try and glance AV14 anymore, immortals would glance less often than they did now), and you'll get the occasional -and I do mean occasional - penetration against low armor values. It would definitely increase their effectiveness in a meaningful way, but it would be very, very far from making them OP. Just ask your friendly 'cron opponent to pretend gauss=rending for a game and you'll see what I mean.

If pariahs aren't going to count as Necrons then they need FNP. I don't think they need 2+ armor, but having them be 4++ FNP would be interesting if we keep them at 36 pts.

I really don't think 65 points for an S10 AP1 shot is too cheap, especially when it's on a T5 , 1 wound, 3+ body. I do see that not everyone should have access to S10 AP1, so maybe have them be S9 AP 1 or AP2 lances or something. Either way, they need some buff right now, because 65 points is way too much to pay for a lascannon that dies to bolter fire. For 10 points more I could have a razorback with a TL PG attached to it!

And I didn't mean Immortals would be troops. Immortals would stay in elites.

If you look at the current Space Marine codex, they most certainly dont have any lance weapons or much of anything strength 10. Oribital Bombarments is about it, and i cant believe anyone would try to use that for anti tank. Neither do Chaos Marines. What SM and CSM do have is melta weapons which i would think necrons could adapt their gauss powers into something like that. Perhaps even just a Strength 8 AP1 18" melta weapon that didnt have to be within half range, appropriately costed.

IMO gauss into rending would be rather over powered. While they cannot harm AV 14 and AV 13 would still be a challenge, being troops it is much easier for them to hit side armor. I personally dont hear much complaint about gauss weapons, they are effective if used right. They stop tanks from shooting, or moving which in effect does its job for at least 1 turn. However, i agree whole heartedly that necrons should receive a better additional anti-tank option.

Rending on flayed ones sounds appropriate and the idea for upgrading to powerweapons is certainly viable. This would make them a scary and far more useable unit. Tho im not sure the addition of fleet would tips the scales into imbalanced or not.

15 point warriors sounds good. Also perhaps a reduced squad size number? if i am not mistaken currently necrons have to be at least 10 models strong and smaller squad sizes could make things interesting.

There should be some rewording and clarification surrounding WBB. I think giving them all Feel No Pain and then allowing Resorbs to allow them to always have FNP despite power weapons and what not would be easy, fair, and fluffy. There would need to be some reworking with Tomb Spiders but it looks like GW already has some good ideas there.

I think overall for the necron codex more options in general would be nice. Different or variable guns on the destroyers and heavy destroyers. New tanks perhaps, maybe even a special character if it wouldnt break the fluff too badly. And points lowered on generally everything, or make everything stronger for the points. I would even say the cost of the monolith should be decreased, too often have i seen them die to lascannons.

SMs have meltas which are, in my opinion, significantly better than lances in nearly every way shape and form. Especially since they're at least AP1 no matter what, and they're nearly always on something you want to be in 6 inch range anyway. Plus they tend to be on the cheap side.

S10 AP1 shouldn't belong to everyone. But it does need some kind of added vehicle punch: in the codex it's described as simultaneously piercing both sides of an LR, something that the Imperium couldn't dupilicate without using one of their starships! I think S10 AP1 H Destroyers might be justified- provided we can put a fair price on them.

Infneon wrote:

Shake Zoola wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:
Monolith: Can fire both particle whip and flux projectors if it remains stationary.

I thought we could already do this?

Nope, the Particle Whip is an Ordnance weapon so will be the only weapon allowed to fire if you choose to fire it

Well then Ive been playing all wrong for a while now...thats embarassing!

Shake Zoola wrote:

Infneon wrote:

Shake Zoola wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:
Monolith: Can fire both particle whip and flux projectors if it remains stationary.

I thought we could already do this?

Nope, the Particle Whip is an Ordnance weapon so will be the only weapon allowed to fire if you choose to fire it

Well then Ive been playing all wrong for a while now...thats embarassing!

Don't worry mate your not alone.

I think that 50 points for a Destroyer is a bit much for a one wound model. They need two wounds, as do Heavy Destroyers. Even Pariahs, and Immortals. Yes they have WBB, but they're Necrons, they're meant to be tough. Then will all those high wound models, Phase Out would seem more justified.

EDIT: I'm also a big fan of inputting the Essence of the C'Tan. Have it as wargear for 80pts, when you activate it on the Lord (Once use only, one per army) you roll a D3 to see how many turns you are that essence. Then smite smite smite! It would also give purpose for our soon to be useless Deceiver and Nightbringer models.

soon to be useless?!

So your saying i bought both of them for no reason...?

Argh.....

Bloodhorror wrote:soon to be useless?!

So your saying i bought both of them for no reason...?

Argh.....

They will be going into Apocalypse only, so they will be getting larger models, making our little ones unnecessary.

Darn you GW!!!

Where'd you hear that anyway?

and to keep on topic... umm
I agree with the Monolith!

Strength 10, ap1 on Heavy D's is WAY overboard. They are fine as they are now.

Necrons really need stubborn. If they were stubborn 9 or 10 for elite units, they would be so much more reliable.

Rending on their guns is fair I think, it gives their squads a lot of punch.

C'Tan need to be eternal warrior.

They also need some 5th ed abilities like options to bring in troops via outflank, deepstriking; to be able to modify reserve rolls, etc.

Some new units, like the rumored dreadnought model would go a long way to improving things as well.

The rest of those changes I agree with.

Crons have a lot of potential, and they don't need too many more models. GW is passing up a money maker by letting them gather dust.

@Samrtk
The Nightbringer and Deciver may not be APoc only, the rumor is that they will stay and be mini C'Tans that are actually lords. The true C'Tan will be Forgeworld models that are Apoc only.

Also, I don't think Destroyers, Immortals or Pariahs need two wounds, they are fine as is, they just need to be stubborn (and Pariahs need to be Necrons and have 2 attacks base). They still put out a fantastic amount of firepower for their points.

Well I would be happy with Codex Necro as is if I could have two things.

1) Let me Combat squad up my Necron Troopers.

2) let me purchess 2 FA:11 SA:10 RA:10 skimmers per squad. mabye a weapon mabye not as long as I get some option to mov m boys arcoss the table a liitle faster

Necron Lords may turn into ctan, only less powerful versions (manifestations), Entire army may use NEcron Lords LD, as he is the "alpha" robot, and basic warriors- WS 3, BS 3, S 4, I 3, A 1, T 4, LD 7 (not very good LD when Necron Lord dissappears), Stubborn, and when army is below 1/4 of starting strength, take LD tests every turn, soon as you fail phase out, Necron Warriors have FNP, Relentless, roughly 16-20 points each, and Gauss Gun things are S4, AP4, Heavy 1, 24" Range, Rending. Rest of the Army revolving around this, like Flayed ones with Rending, Fleet, Outflank, Tomb Spyders acting a little like smaller Dreadnaughts, Warriors in Squads of 5-10, Wraiths- Scouts, Fleet, Stealth, WS 5, BS 3, S 4, T 4, I 5, W 1, A 2, LD 8, Rending, 5+ invuns, i dunno i could go on forever, i just reckon necrons gotta be more like slow, hard to kill robots (almost zombies) with a few elite units dedicated to certain tasks, such as flayed ones as shock troops, wriaths as fast assasination units, Immortals as fire support etc.

Is it really confirmed that C'Tan are moving to apocalypse? Every time I hear that rumor it ends up rooted in the wishlisting of butthurt players who either have fluff objections or got their ass handed to them because they didn't come equpped for T8 W5 4++. I always hear a few players complain about me fielding a Deceiver, but rather than adapt (I'm pretty sure every army but Orks has a reliable way to take it out that doesn't force you to take things that aren't terribly useful in their own right) they simply call it broken.

Well lets count necrons anti tank ..... 2? yes that is really all they have, Warsycths and c`tan dont count, so i propose to make a tank that carrys a particle whip. This would in my opinion be to over powered as the whip isnt that powerful anyway. This is my *new* necron tank.

The Guass Launcher 9name pending)

FA13 SA12 RA10
Mounts a particle whip and 2 guass blasters.

Hovering:
It counts as a skimmer but as of its heavy arnament can only move 6

Charging:
If it decides to fire its Particle whip it cannot move or fire its Particle whip again (it may still fire its guass blasters) as the smaller power crystal is gaining charge.

200 points...

Thoughts

EagleArk.

@Ostrakon
I agree, the C'Tan are in no way overpowered. They can be insta killed and things like poisoned weapons and sniper weapons destroy them. They are great and very powerful, but by no means over powered.

@Eagleark

I like the idea of a smaller Necron Weapons platform while maintaining the feel of the Monolith. However, I'm not sure that this is fits with the fluff.

What do you think of taking Tomb Spyders and turning them into a Walker creature akin to a Dreadnought or Soul Grinder?

Tomb Spyder (Walker)
S10 I3 A1 FA13 SA12 RA10

- 2 Dreadnought CC Weapons (1 Attack Base, +1 Attack for each CC Weapon for 3 Total)

May Replace Dreadnought CC Weapons With:
- Particle Whip
- Heavy Gauss Blaster
- Particle Gannon

* Living Armour
* Create Scarab Swarms
* Link for WBB Rolls

I'm not sure what the point costs on this should be, but I think it would be a lot of fun to play with.

Ostrakon wrote:
Heavy Destroyers: S10 AP1 weapon, same points.
Thoughts?

Whoa whoa whoa. They're not railguns, they're fine as is, just make them cheaper.

Besides that, I like these changes. Also, I'd recommend adding Stubborn to all units.

Gavo wrote:Besides that, I like these changes. Also, I'd recommend adding Stubborn to all units.

I agree. Stubborn would be a very good rule for Necrons. They'll still need to all be re-costed, especially Destroyers (of Heavy and non-Heavy varieties).

Lords - There's been some good stuff floating around about having different tiers of strength for lords. I think this would be a nice change with the best wargear going to the highest tier lords. A couple pieces of wargear to add would be an "Aspect of" item that would allow the lord to basicly become a "Diet C'tan" along the lines of the DoW game. Another wargear item I'd like to see would be something which gives an army wide buff that allows a unit within 18" of any Power Matrix equipped model to use it to teleport to any other Power Matrix equipped model. The Matrix that they teleported from would be the one that gets counted as being used so it would not be able to fire it's partical whip that turn or teleport any other units.

Pariahs - I like the idea someone had made once that basicly got rid of these as a unit type, but made them available as a Sergeant upgrade for Warrior and Immortal squads. I'd add 1 attack to their profile and they become something to make someone think twice about assaulting your warrior squads.

Immortals - I think are fine as they stand (just give us some plastic models!!!)

Flayed ones - Move to Troops and give them rending, maybe fleet.

Warriors - Fine as they are IMHO with some of the other changes listed. Maybe drop them a couple points in cost, or possibly give them relentless.

Wraiths - Give them power weapons and an extra wound and bump them to 50 points a piece.

Destroyers - Fine as they are

Scarabs - Possibly add a "repair" upgrade where they will function as combined Rez Orb/Tomb Spyder if they are within 6" (allows WBB roll even if caused by double str weapons, weapons that disallow armor saves, and no other models within 6" but another unit of the same type on the battlefield) in regards to WBB rolls, but for every model's WBB roll they provide the benefit to, they take an automatic unsaved wound. Just a thought, may be too OTT.

Tomb Spyders - I like these guys how they are for the most part. Just give us some plastics.

Heavy Destroyer - They just seem too expensive for mobile las cannons. I think that maybe give them the "Lance" rule would work to make them a bit more reasonable.

Monolith - Fine how it is.

Obelisk - New unit that is basicly a Necron drop pod with some added perks. It can only be taken as a dedicated transport to Warriors, Flayed Ones, and Immortals. Immobile, AV12 all the way around, equipped with a power matrix. The partical whip on it is toned down to S8 AP3. When dropped it uses the power matrix to teleport the unit to which it is assigned so it may not fire the turn it drops in. Unlike other drop pods, the unit assigned to it MUST drop in with the pod. I'm thinking somewhere around 100 points off the top of my head.

I think that the above changes give the Necrons a high amount of mobility, adds some AT, and makes them more of a threat in CC without changing the fluff of the army much.