Blasts from transports

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**HoverBoy**

Example:
If you throw a demo charge/fire frag missile from the hatch of a chimera/rhino and then it scatters onto it whych facing does it hit on, for the purpoces of armor penetration?

Edit: Changed thread name to adress the more general issue.

**willydstyle**

Every facing.

**Seriphis**

Resolve it as per the rules in shooting a vehicle.

BGB is pretty clear about this. page 60.

note:

Every facing.

isnt going to help you.

**HoverBoy**

But i can't really work out whych facing the fireing dude is facing hes INSIDE the transport, remember blasts hit the side you're facing (rulebook p60), does it count as front side or rear.

**nosferatu1001**

Work out which direction you were firing in, when it scatters back it hits that side...

**HoverBoy**

So if i fire from the rear of the transport it hits rear, and if i fire forward its front etc. Makes sence that way.

**nosferatu1001**

It's what I would say happens, makes sense to me....

**Viper217**

You could always penalize the incompetent aim of the models inside by making it hit the worst possible facing, hoping for an explosion that kills them... :p

**HoverBoy**

Viper217 wrote:You could always penalize the incompetent aim of the models inside by making it hit the worst possible facing, hoping for an explosion that kills them... :p

Might as well use a scatter die then, makes about as much sense.

**Orkestra**

I agree with Nos on this one.

However, it could be comical to imagine that the projectile never made it out of the hatch (an ultimate 'whoops' kind of moment for the throwing model), and resolve the blast as hitting the embarked unit and causing a Crew Stunned on the vehicle

.

NOTE: don't actually play this way, it's unnecessarily harsh.

**HoverBoy**

Guarsman: Awww $hit, anyone seen my demo charge

**Seriphis**

Firstly, you cant intentionally place a template so that it even skims your own unit or vehicle...

e.g. if you have a unit in base to base of the vehicle, you can not throw a blast template at it that when the hole is placed over the base of the model you've targetted that any part of the template touches the friendly vehicle.

Secondly, if you firing the blast template at a vehicle, where the unit firing at the vehicle sits in relation to the arc's as defined on page 60 defines the facing armour.
So if you have a fire point within the rear armour area of the tank in the diagram and a fire point in either of the side armour areas, you can then choose to use the fire point you want to target the area you want to hit. This is only if it hits on the hull directly.

If you scatter off the vehicle, so that the hole is on the ground, but some part of the template is still over the vehicle, the vehicle is hit on the side that the template's hole is facing as per above. So if you target the turret of the vehicle and it scatters directly right of the vehicle, with the hole to the right of the vehicle but part of the template still touching, the hit is resolved on that side.

**HoverBoy**

Blasts scatter and then they can hit friendlys, where in this thread has anyone made a refference to intentionally hitting your own units.
And another thing what if i fire from a top hatch then what?
In theory it could be side armor (see shooting barrage at vehicles).
The reason im asking however is that theres no RAW way of detemening whych side of a transport the unit in it faces, thus im hoping this thread to lead to some reasonable solution that most (you can't please all) will be happy with.

**Grey Templar**

if the hole of the template is on the vehicle it hits the side armor at full strength and if its off it hits the facing its closest to at 1/2 strength.

BRB is quite clear on this

**Seriphis**

my first point was to make sure.

In theory it could be side armor (see shooting barrage at vehicles).

yes it could be... but read the second last paragraph on the page 60, which starts as "The centre of the blast marker ends over the vehicle's hull"

Automatically Appended Next Post:
then read the last paragraph of the same page...

**willydstyle**

Grey Templar wrote:if the hole of the template is on the vehicle it hits the side armor at full strength and if its off it hits the facing its closest to at 1/2 strength.

BRB is quite clear on this

Those would be the rules for ordnance barrage. Direct-fire ordnance and regular blasts do not use all of these rules.

**Seriphis**

Those would be the rules for ordnance barrage. Direct-fire ordnance and regular blasts do not use all of these rules.

All blasts resolve the same way...

Difference between direct-fire ordnance and ordnance barrage is the need for line of sight, pinning and how scattering occurs.

**willydstyle**

Not all blasts are always resolved against side armor... nor are all ordnance blasts.

**nosferatu1001**

Seriphis wrote:
Those would be the rules for ordnance barrage. Direct-fire ordnance and regular blasts do not use all of these rules.

All blasts resolve the same way...

Difference between direct-fire ordnance and ordnance barrage is the need for line of sight, pinning and how scattering occurs.

Wrong. Direct fire / Direct fire Ordnance resolve agaisnt the armour facing that the firing model is in <- this is the situation for the Demo charge, it is direct fire. Hence the issue, the model is inside the tank.

Indirect fire resolves against side armour <- this is not the situation.

**HoverBoy**

Seriphis wrote:All blasts resolve the same way...

Thats plain wrong, direct fire blasts allways hit what they face, even if the blast scatters behind the vehicle the 1/2 streinght hit hits the facing the fireing model is facing as opposed to rear.
So my question still stands whych facing of a vehicle does a model in it face?

**Gorkamorka**

HoverBoy wrote:
So my question still stands whych facing of a vehicle does a model in it face?

There simply aren't any clear rules for it.
The direction of the target seems to make the most sense.

**HoverBoy**

nosferatu1001 wrote:Indirect fire resolves against side armour <- this is not the situation.

Yea i suggested side cuz hatches are mostly on top of the vehicle, so since top armor is defined to equal side it could make sence in case you decide to use the "hits firepoint's side" way of doing it.

**Gwar!**

HoverBoy wrote:
Seriphis wrote:All blasts resolve the same way...

Thats plain wrong, direct fire blasts allways hit what they face, even if the blast scatters behind the vehicle the 1/2 streinght hit hits the facing the fireing model is facing as opposed to rear.
So my question still stands whych facing of a vehicle does a model in it face?

Wow, Sorry, but before you call others wrong, start being right yourself. A "Splash" hit hits the facing as determined from the hole.

The armour penetration roll is resolved against the Armour Value facing the centre of the marker, regardless of the position of the firer, and the weapon 's Strength is halved (round down).

**HoverBoy**

Im not new to admiting im wrong. So yea im wrong

Still what happens if the center hits it, what facing do i pen?

**ChrisCP**

This shot is from and hitting the same tank right? Take the intended direction of the shot and work back to that facing I think.

**HoverBoy**

So you mean it hits the side the intended target is on?
This one makes sense too, they should make rules with more of that

**nosferatu1001**

THats what I said initially - work out which side you were firign from, that is the side that is hit if it scatters back onto you, with the hole in the centre ove rthe vehicle.

IF the hole isnt over the centre of the vehicle then you follow the "splash" damage as in the rules.

**Scott-S6**

There's no RAW but the facing towards the (intended) target seems sensible, I think that few players would contest that.

**HoverBoy**

Sweet, concensus reached thanks for the feedback guys.