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I've been out of 40k since the end of 2nd Edition, but have kept abreast of the major changes thanks to friends who still play and I've decided to take up the hobby again, collecting Orks.

I've been browsing the forum for a little while and notice some interesting comments regarding the Space Wolves who were my army of choice in the 2nd Edition. Comments like;

Dashofpepper wrote:... especially against the power armies like IG or SW in the hands of a good opponent.

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:...right behind wolves and ig in power levels, but so is everybody else.

I've glanced through the Space Wolves codex and noticed some "cool" units like Lone Wolves and the Thunderwolf Cavalry but can someone please explain to me what makes a Space Wolves list so powerful*?

Bear in mind I've played a total of one game in 5th Edition so some of the explanations might go over my head completely. I may dust of my old army and subject some local clubs to my horrible, mid-90's painted Space Wolves.

If this is a complete face palm topic I apologize, but I really am a newbie when it comes to 5th Edition.

*in the hands of a good player, I should add.

Ehm, my brother runs three landraider Wolfguard spam? Not sure if its a power list but it usually beats the pants out of his friends even when they double his point limit.

Take a look at my Space Wolf Synsergy Thread
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/266924.page

This list style:

Max OD SW:
Rune Priest, Living Lightning, JotWW, Chooser of the Slain
110
3 Wolf Guard, Combi-Melta, Razorback, Las/Plas
144
3 Wolf Guard, Combi-Melta, Razorback, Las/Plas
144
3 Wolf Guard, Combi-Melta, Razorback, Las/Plas
144
5 Grey Hunter, Flamer, Razorback, Las/Plas
150
5 Grey Hunter, Flamer, Razorback, Las/Plas
150
5 Grey Hunter, Flamer, Razorback, Las/Plas
150
5 Grey Hunter, Flamer, Razorback, Las/Plas
150
5 Grey Hunter, Flamer, Razorback, Las/Plas
150
6 Long Fang, 5 Missile, Rhino
175
6 Long Fang, 5 Missile
140
6 Long Fang, 5 Missile
140

1747

First off Space Wolves get a 2 for 1 deal on HQ units. Second Saga of the Bear means that your basic wolf lord gets Eternal Warrior. Njal especially and Rune Priests in general get real nasty psychic powers like Jaws of the World Wolf which forces infantry to take Initiative tests or die without making saves. The basic Grey Hunter is 1 point cheaper than a Space Marine. Logan Grimnar can make Long Fangs relentless so they may move and shoot their heavy weapons. The grey hunters are able to take a special weapon without being maximum size, may also take a Mark of the Wulfen, Power Fist/Frost Blade and plasma pistol on separate models as well as a Wolfguard leading them with his own pimped out wargear. Wolf Tooth Necklace means always hitting on a 3+ which helps against the 'nids new psychic power Paraoxysm. Blood Claws get +2 A for charging and all Space Wolves benefit from Counterattack special rule. Lone Wolves are essentially characters that specialize in killing big things, don't give away kill points when they die and take up elites slots. Thunderwolf Cavalry are S5, T5 with 4 attacks minimum and can take Stormshields (3+ invulnerable) have 2 wounds and use the cavalry movement of 6" move and 12" assault.

That's all I can remember off the top of my head.

...and the guy that won Adepticon this past weekend was playing SW.

The SW codex does have a lot of pretty strong units and abilities, but it is still the second newest codex. When I first started to play them (first started to play at all actually) I did very good against my friends and over time my friends have learned how to fight them. So I think its partly that they are pretty damn strong and also that not everyone has found the best way to kill them yet IMO.

Iron_Chaos_Brute wrote:This list style:

Max OD SW:
Rune Priest, Living Lightning, JotWW, Chooser of the Slain
110
3 Wolf Guard, Combi-Melta, Razorback, Las/Plas
144
3 Wolf Guard, Combi-Melta, Razorback, Las/Plas
144
3 Wolf Guard, Combi-Melta, Razorback, Las/Plas
144
5 Grey Hunter, Flamer, Razorback, Las/Plas
150
5 Grey Hunter, Flamer, Razorback, Las/Plas
150
5 Grey Hunter, Flamer, Razorback, Las/Plas
150
5 Grey Hunter, Flamer, Razorback, Las/Plas
150
5 Grey Hunter, Flamer, Razorback, Las/Plas
150
6 Long Fang, 5 Missile, Rhino
175
6 Long Fang, 5 Missile
140
6 Long Fang, 5 Missile
140

1747

Can someone explain to me the strengths of the above list?

I see a lot of heavy weapons. High mobility. A lot of figures (relatively). A lot of units that can capture objectives to my newb eyes.

The strengths are yes, lots of scoring units. Lots of transports and a fair amount if Lascannons on the Razorbacks.

Can someone explain to me the strengths of the above list?

I see a lot of heavy weapons. High mobility. A lot of figures (relatively). A lot of units that can capture objectives to my newb eyes.

You answered your own question. I play guard and I would be hard pressed to match that firepower

The wolves are extremely point efficient in terms of heavy weaponry, squad upgrades and grey hunters. Pound for pound, their hq's can kick 12 shades of crap out of most other hq's. Their elite units like wolf guard/thunderwolves make for excellent deathstars.

It's a book that will remain powerful for a while regardless of what comes out. They have very few weaknesses and if written correctly are able to cover all their bases. Meaning they don't have to make many compromises with what they bring vs. what they leave behind.

The book can build several different competitive lists. Anything from spamming light vehicles and heavy weapons, swarms of power armor on foot or mass cavalry. They can even dabble in hero-hammer with more sucess than most other books. All terminator army etc etc. It lends itself well to average list building ability, enabling you to get a fairly nasty army without really trying too hard.

You will see the power even out over time, but as I said: The wolf codex is going to stay strong and competitive for a good while.

Iron_Chaos_Brute wrote:This list style:

Max OD SW:
Rune Priest, Living Lightning, JotWW, Chooser of the Slain
110
3 Wolf Guard, Combi-Melta, Razorback, Las/Plas
144
3 Wolf Guard, Combi-Melta, Razorback, Las/Plas
144
3 Wolf Guard, Combi-Melta, Razorback, Las/Plas
144
5 Grey Hunter, Flamer, Razorback, Las/Plas
150
5 Grey Hunter, Flamer, Razorback, Las/Plas
150
5 Grey Hunter, Flamer, Razorback, Las/Plas
150
5 Grey Hunter, Flamer, Razorback, Las/Plas
150
5 Grey Hunter, Flamer, Razorback, Las/Plas
150
6 Long Fang, 5 Missile, Rhino
175
6 Long Fang, 5 Missile
140
6 Long Fang, 5 Missile
140

1747

I keep seeing varients of the Razorback list popping up on Dakka etc. But given the fact that dedicated transports count as units and thus they DO give up a Kill point when you destroy them, don't lists like this give away too many easy kill points??? Killing Armor 11 vehicles is not very difficult IMO.

"Giving away killpoints" is something I never, ever worry about in list buiding.

It's not how many you *can* give up, it's how many you get and how fast.

This is an oversimplification, but it works in broadest terms.

I agree with AKGator: It's new and shiny, and not everyone has them figured out yet.

Well, I have repeatedly watched them stomp the crap out of horde orks, and they deal way more effective shooting than regular marines can.

Eyclonus wrote:First off Space Wolves get a 2 for 1 deal on HQ units. Second Saga of the Bear means that your basic wolf lord gets Eternal Warrior. Njal especially and Rune Priests in general get real nasty psychic powers like Jaws of the World Wolf which forces infantry to take Initiative tests or die without making saves. The basic Grey Hunter is 1 point cheaper than a Space Marine. Logan Grimnar can make Long Fangs relentless so they may move and shoot their heavy weapons. The grey hunters are able to take a special weapon without being maximum size, may also take a Mark of the Wulfen, Power Fist/Frost Blade and plasma pistol on separate models as well as a Wolfguard leading them with his own pimped out wargear. Wolf Tooth Necklace means always hitting on a 3+ which helps against the 'nids new psychic power Paraoxysm. Blood Claws get +2 A for charging and all Space Wolves benefit from Counterattack special rule. Lone Wolves are essentially characters that specialize in killing big things, don't give away kill points when they die and take up elites slots. Thunderwolf Cavalry are S5, T5 with 4 attacks minimum and can take Stormshields (3+ invulnerable) have 2 wounds and use the cavalry movement of 6" move and 12" assault.

That's all I can remember off the top of my head.

That's a good summary. Don't forget that you can "hide" custom equiped Wolf Guard in units as their sarge. Long Fangs are also more offensive/cheaper than Dev Squads.

Pretty much, if you aren't going to play a Space Marine special character like Vulkan, Pedro, etc... then you probably will be better off with the Space Pups.

After I picked up the Space Wolf Codex I had a look at the list posted by Iron_Chaos_Brute and specifically the Razorbacks armament.

The Lascannon/Twin linked Plasma is the same price as TL-Lascannon. Why wouldn't you invest in the TL Lascannon over the Las/Plas?

BEcause you had the old Las/plas model and wanted to use it?

They specifically put it back in in order to get the old models useable again. Also you get 2 shots all the time, which is better in some circumstances than the TL higher strength one - and and short range you get 3 shots.

So let me get this right, you can move the Razorback 12" and fire both the Plasma Gun and the Lascannon while re-rolling shots for the Plasma Gun?

No, you can't move and fire both.

More importantly if the RB suffers a weapon destroyed result on the V. damage chart, it is still killy to some capacity.

Blair wrote:After I picked up the Space Wolf Codex I had a look at the list posted by Iron_Chaos_Brute and specifically the Razorbacks armament.

The Lascannon/Twin linked Plasma is the same price as TL-Lascannon. Why wouldn't you invest in the TL Lascannon over the Las/Plas?

2 weapons. If you suffer a "Weapon Destroyed", you aren't suddenly useless.