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This came up in my last game: my unit of wildriders are directly behind a single model combat. Here's the key:

___ = empty space
x = enemy model
o = friendly model
w = wildriders

Here's the formation:

_____x_____
_____o_____
__wwwww__

I wanted to move the wildriders up and to the left. I planned to measure for each model, and move them as far as they could go without crossing the combat. However, my opponent wanted me to perform reform manuevers during my movement.

Here's what he asked me to do: 1) Move backwards until I could reform facing sideways 2) Reform facing sideways 3) Move the unit like a normal block, with normal wheeling from the outside corner, etc, unless I desired to reform it again, which I would have to do so before measuring the rest of their movement.

He said this because, although it says that wildriders can have as many free reforms during their movement as they like, it doesn't say they can move however they like. Is this right, or is how I've been doing it (and no one's said anything before now) in freely moving each model it's full distance, correct? I don't see how you could be obliged to actually perform all the reforms... here's the actual quote of the rules:

"Free Reform- Unless it charges, a fast calvary unit can reform as many times as you wish during its movement phase without incurring any penalties to its Move distance. See the rules for reforming on page 14. They can do this even whilst marching. Remember that no model in the fast calvary unit can move more than double its maximum Move distance, despite reforming (see Diagram 70.1)"

And in that diagram, I don't see a wheel, move, then counter-wheel, reform... I just see a curved arrow, which is how I've always done my measurement, just making sure each model doesn't move farther than its allowed. The diagram didn't convince my opponent. Can anyone help me out here, one way or the other?

Technically they should be actually performing the reforms and moving like a block.

In your specific example, they shouldn't have to back up to turn to the left, though. Reform into a one wide formation, facing left, move, reform facing up, move, and you're good to go.

I don't ever make my opponents get that into the weeds though, as it would be unbelievably fiddly.

RZ

We've always played it that you just pick up your fast cavalry, move the model where you want and then measure to check the double move issue. I think that is in the spirit of the diagram in the rules. There is no wide-sweeping arrow move.

Red_Zeke wrote:I don't ever make my opponents get that into the weeds though, as it would be unbelievably fiddly.

That's where I was coming from- I just never expected this. I was so suprised that he was asking me to do this, that I forgot what reform was... He was telling me I'd have the pivot the whole unit on its center point to face the left, but obviously I could just reform into a 1x5 unit, instead of a 5x1, facing to the left.

However, wouldn't that have placed my horse to the right farther to the right than it was before (since calvary bases are longer than they are wide)? He was making me measure at each step, instead of just measuring the total distance the model had moved from its starting point. So I imagine he would have made me measure for that horse to the far right, which would have given me even less movement.

Would that have been legal (by the letter of the rules) for him to force me to do? I think the pertinent part of the rule above is "Remember that no model in the fast calvary unit can move more than double its maximum Move distance, despite reforming (see Diagram 70.1)"

I don't ever expect to have another opponent ask this of me, but he's the boyfriend of the manager of one of the local GW's, so that's a fair chance I'll have to play him in particular again... and have this issue come up again.

Wow he sounds like a stiff. Fortunately, I have not played against anyone so adamant about the game.

Could you reform behind the middle rider, wheel, move, then reform again? or Pivot the rider fartherest to the right and measure straight to the left as far as you need to move then pivot again and move as far as you can? I would think they would all move the same distance. I guess a might make you pivot your center guy and measure the distance your outside guys are displaced and subtract that distance from your total movement.

It specifically states that you may freely reform while marching. I can understand that someone might be just that much of an ass, the vast majority don't expect you to stop and reform every few inches because since it is absolutely free reform you can change into any formation you want while still touching. Most people understand that this means you can literally be going straight forward at any given time, even during a turn.

It's similar (I think) to having a ball on a string and spinning it in circles. The ball is clearly going in circles due to the string holding it at a specific point, but the ball is constantly moving straight forward exactly perpendicular to the string. It does not lose any distance for turning and its direction angle never changes. It is going in a straight line just a different direction.

Now replace the ball with a line of Fast Cav which can turn and face whatever direction they want and reform horizontally/vertically/whatever an infinite number of times in an infinite number of directions/combinations and you have a unit that is unhindered by the turning and wheeling rules. Because you are unhindered, you get that diagram that shows you move as a curved arrow to where you want to be so long as no individual model moves more than double their distance and they end in a ranked formation of some sort facing any direction.

That's a good analogy, perhaps I'll try it on him if we play again . Thanks!

Would you be able to re-form into a single model wide column, snake around the enemy model, then reform into the final position? It would eliminate your opponents stated requirement to wheel & pivot.

RanTheCid wrote:Would you be able to re-form into a single model wide column, snake around the enemy model, then reform into the final position? It would eliminate your opponents stated requirement to wheel & pivot.

Yes you can Cid, it is why you only need a hair over a 3" (technically it is a 3.0000000000000004") gap between enemy models for Fast Cav to snake through. This allows the 1" buffer zone that you cannot enter unless engaged in combat, but allows the front of a single 25mm base

As noted, technically they have to perform actual Reform maneuvers as they go. In practice, there’s usually plenty of space around them, and it’s not necessary to go through the hassle. I did once make an opponent do it in a game because due to the close proximity of units he could not actually have “snaked” between units to get to the position he wanted, whereas it looked like he could if he just pivoted and moved each individual model in a curving line like 40k troops.

Good point, Mannahnin... I wouldn't mind someone asking me to do it if they were reasonable about it.

However, did you force him to measure after each reform?

My problem is the above- if I had reformed into a line facing left, the longer calvary bases would have pushed my right-most calvary model farther to the right. For his movement, would I need to measure from this new position? It seems like it should be a wash, since when they reform back together, the model will get pulled farther to the left... I'm just wondering if he would suffer in his total move distance due to the original reform.

Ugh... this is hurting my brain! Maybe a picture will explain what I mean better:

Original position:

______x_____
______o_____
___wwwww___

Reform (with the \/\/ representing the long calvary bases now facing sideways)

______x_______
______o_______
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

Now I move sideways:

___________x_______
___________o_______
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

And reform again:

__________x_____
__________o_____
___wwwww___

Now I can move like normal... and I think I just answered my own question, the model being pushed farther to the right still moved the same distance as the rest, and when they reformed to face forward again, he gets "sucked" back to the left, since they reform about their center point (right)? So it's a wash...

Ah, if I'd only remembered this at the time! I don't think this called for him asking me to perform the reforms, since this is a pretty simple manuever, and I was going to measure to the side for each model, then up (to go around the combat) anyway. But if it was something more complicated, I could see someone asking me to do it, like in the case you mention Mannahnin.

Yup. About Face breaks the game a little when dealing with bases which aren't perfect squares, but you're absolutely on target with how it's handled in practice.

Yeah, if you wernt being abusive about it, wavy os the easy way to do it. Kind of like 1/4 inch advances diagonal. I've witnessed people giving themselves a much to generous "wavy move", and asked them to break down the moves. Although even then we just moved one "center of mass" model and put the unit down around him at the end. Sounds like the guy might have been trying to weasel put of a tactical underestimation, which often happens with wildriders >

I try to avoid over-generous wavy movement by literally bending my tape measure in the manner similar to what you see the curved diagonal arrow in the diagram. This ensures that you are giving proper distance between terrain/other models and not just "flying" over them to your end point.