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I don't play crusher lists, and am playing with models I have. Is this mildly competitive?

HQ I: Farseer
-Guide
-Mindwar
-Spirit Stones
-Runes of Warding
-Singing Spear

HQ II: Farseer
-Fortune
-Guide
-Spirit Stones
-Runes of Witnessing

HQ II.0 Warlocks x7
-Destructor x4
-Enhance
-Embolden
D.T. Wave Serpent
-Shuriken Cannons
-Spirit Stones


Troop I Guardian Jetbikes x4
-Shuriken Cannon

Troop II Guardian Jetbikes x4
-Shuriken Cannon

Troop III Guardians x10
-Warlock
-Destructor
-Starcannon
D.T. Wave Serpent
-Bright Lances
-Spirit Stones

Elite I Wraithguard x5
-Warlock
-Embolden
-Singing Spear
D.T. Wave Serpent
-Star Cannons
-Spirit Stones

Fast Attack I Warspiders x7
-Exarch
-Deathspinner
-Withdraw
-Powerblades

Heavy Support I Fire Prism
-Holo Fields

Heavy Support II Fire Prism
-Holo Fields

Heavy Support III War Walkers x2
-Star Cannons x4

So that is is. I think I have troops covered for objectives upfield, home and in between. Does it have enough destructo power though? I think MEQ would be a good match up. Other than that???

Let me know if I need to explain any tactics.

HQ I goes with the Wraithguard.

Thanks for the help.

I woul add Eldritc storm to your first fareer and to the second farseer as well

At a 2250 level unless your in a tourney with newer player I doubt this list would fair well.

Starcannons are overpriced and negated largely by 5th Edition easy to gain cover.

Guardian Jetbikes in that configuration with bolt of the table from failed leadership.

Wraithguard lock you have embolden on a fearless unit, yes it helps the Farseer, but that is a terrible waste.



At the 2250 point level you should be expecting to take on mass Dreadnought lists, massive green sea lists, 80+ marine drop pod lists, etc.

Well, if you face Nids I'd give the Farseers runes of witnesses so that your Farseer will roll 2D6 for psychic tests;
it negates the Tyranids' mandatory shadow power.

Vector engines are almost obsolete in the new ed.

OK swapped out the engines for the runes. Thanks for the tip! Do I need to free up points for the other Farseer to have them?

Why is a 5 point embolden a 'terrible' waste? I need the farseer's power to be nearly failsafe, much more so than I need a 5+ cover for the wrathguard, a heavy flamer in an anti-tank unit, or even an enchance for a unit whose main purpose is to shoot.

Guardian jetbikes die, yes, but then again they are cheap and a waste of ammo.

Embolden on the Wraithguard does give the Farseer a good chance to never fail... but without it only a 11/12 will cause a fail. Take 10 pts and give them conceal to protect against AP3 in the open.

Your jetbikes are 2 of your 3 troop choices which means if you get objective based you can't afford to lose them. In Annihilation it means 2 easy KPs for your opponent. As is an SM pack launches a single krak into them and there is a strong chance you can kiss the whole unit goodbye.

So do you suggest 1 6 man squad with two cannons?

My plan was to hold them in reserve and let the enemy shoot at all the tanks. then Zoom in late in the game to take objectives or contest.

I will do the same with the large 6 man unit. I'm not disagreeing just looking for feedback.

Elite I Wraithguard x5
-Warlock
-Embolden
-Singing Spear
D.T. Wave Serpent
-Star Cannons
-Spirit Stones

Embolden is useful for non-fearless units, but WG are different.

A 6 man will work but honestly drop the Cannons. if your planning on capping objectives with them then they need to turbo-boost the entire time they are on the board. If your going for shooty GJB you almost have to have a Embolden lock with them.

As mentioned previously, if your bike squads are going to be objective grabbers then dont bother to give them cannons.

Dump all of the star cannons in your army. Give scatter lasers or emls to the war walkers, give the guardians a scatter laser or an eml, and give the serpent anything except star cannons. Really, anything except star cannons work on a serpent, depending on what you want it to do.

If there is any way that you can get the models, replace the wraithguard with fire dragons. Dragons will likely do a better job at a lower cost.


Having the guardians proclaim themselves to actually be dire avengers (paint them blue and white if they arent painted yet) and drop the guardian idea would be a possibility too.

Runes of witnessing are a really good investement for any farseer who has spirit stones. Using two powers a turn, runes make a huge difference.



Sliggoth

Got in a practice game last night vs an all MEQ IG army. Kill Points, Pitched Battle.

He brought plenty of Vets with meltas and spent the majority of his shooting at the various grav tanks. They withstood the fire for 4 out of 6 turns before I lost a couple. Since there weren't objectives I was much more offensive with certain units than I would have been normally.


Both Guardian Squads died as did the jetbike squads but they all secured KPs before getting waxed. I think I will drop the WS on one of the squads, and combine the jetbikes into 1 6 man unit.

Warp Spiders chickened out until turn 5 then killed something and were killed, dissappointing, but I honestly wasn't expecting much.

Warwalkers were not kitted out well for the match up, their shots bounced off hulls and then they were blown up.

Fire Prisms took copious amounts of fire and provided little in offensive return... I suppose 1 twin linked shot is better than 2 las cannon shots since they scatter???

The wraightguard took out a 2/3 of a squadron of LRBT and blew the battle cannon off the 3rd in 1 volley, then next turn assaulted the HQ and his squad and killed them.

The real stars were the warlocks though. I waited until I could zoom close and then he popped their transport. They ejected and did a multi assault aganst 2 chimeras and 2 squads of vets. I killed them all, and didn't lose a warlock... Then they finished off the LRBT, a squad of armored scentinals, and the last chimera....

Victory. I tabled him aside from 1 squad of vets, and a squadron of valkreyes... To his defense he usually runs much tougher lists and this was his first outing with this MEQ list but it felt good to withstand all that firepower and stay in the game, much less win.


SO... Do I get another unit of wraithguard? Do I get another unit of Warlocks in a WS? Yeah, those are expesive units but they are so tough that they can really dishout death and take the return fire and live.

I was thinking of doubling both units of them, mimicking the HQ II instead of HQ I and running guardians on the cheap for troops.

Is this the person you will regularly play or do you plan to fight other armies? I wouldn't call IG MEQ in the slightest.

Some things to point out:

- Warlocks vs T4 Armor 3+ Marines is a very different story.

- Your Wraithguard will typically die to a Powerfist not firing, and you'll find that they will get maybe a round of shooting off before they get assaulted by one.

- Fire Prism, besides rare occasions always fire Combined beams. Large Blast for infantry, Small blast for 2+ armor/vehicles/MCs etc. The reason Prisms are good is for the S6 AP3 vs marine blobs.

A solid play test for what you typically see in tourneys (at least around here) is Marines.

That being said grats on your win

we had a tourny around were i live there were only like 2 marine player

The Farseer wrote:we had a tourny around were i live there were only like 2 marine player

As sad as it is to say, most places I have been or seen that is not the norm.

Well all of the things, like star cannons and wraightguard that are good at killing traditional MEQ, like marines sorry for the misclassification, everyone says to take out.

There are a wide variety at my FLGS, Marines(All kinds), Chaos, Orks, are the most popular, Eldar, IG and Nids pop up as well. Honestly I was wanting this to be an all comers list with a slight trend to anti-MEQ.

With that many points into farseers, why not get Eldrad? You can just name one of your farseer models him, and use his stuff. Having all the psychic powers and using three a turn is amazing. he comes with the special rule to redeploy 1+d3 units after already moving them down. He lives a little longer than normal farseers as well, and has all the upgrades.

I love how starcannons went from being really great, to really crappy, practically overnight.

One of the perks of having your codex come out right before a codex change. Increase of points to balance them then 5th Ed cover rules to bury them.

OK, I wanted to see if folks had anything else to provide feedback on.

I am thinking of the following.

Scatter Lasers on the warwalkers.

Combining the bike squads into 1.

Adding some fire dragons either in a falcon or as a replacement to the guardians in the wave serpent.

If I do that I would have to drop a Fire Prism or both.

I am definitally keeping the wraithguard, warlocks and would like to keep the warp spiders.

thanks for the comments.

Scatter Lasers on the warwalkers.

Combining the bike squads into 1.

Scatter lasers on War Walkers are great, the best bang for the bucks.

I'd consider one GJB squadron of 6, with 2 shuricannons, led by a Warlock with spear and embolden.

Fire Prisms? I'd take them naked, two or none.

New List!

HQ I Farseer +Guide Mindwar Singing Spear Spirit Stones Runes of Witnessing

HQ II Farseer
+Fortune Doom Spirit Stones Runes of Warding

HQ II-X Warlocks x 7 Total:
+ Enhance Embolden Destructor x 4
Dedicated Transport: Wave Serpent
+ Shuriken Cannons Spirit Stones

Troop I Guardian Jetbikes x 6
+ 2x Shuriken Cannon

Troop II Guardians x 10
+Warlock Embolden Eldar Missile Launcher

Troop III Guardians x 10
+Warlock Embolden Eldar Missile Launcher

Troop IV Dire Avengers x 6
+ Exarch 2x Shuriken Catapults Bladestorm

Elite I Wraithguard x 5
+ Warlock Enhance Singing Spear
Dedicated Transport: Wave Serpent
+ Star Cannons Spirit Stones

Elite II Fire Dragons x 5

Fast Attack I Warp Spiders x 7
+ Exarch Deathspinner

Heavy Support I War Walkers x 2
+ 4 x Scatter Lasers

Heavy Support II Falcon
+ Scatter Laser Holofields Spirit Stones

Heavy Support III Falcon
+ Scatter Laser Holofields Spirit Stones

{Edit for idiocy}

Take the individual point costs out, it's against the forum rules. It can get Dakka into deep GW legal woes.

As for the list:
-Mindwar, do you typically take on orks? it's a situation power and not really worth the cost of stones + mindwar.
-GJB loadout, playtest it a bit and see how it rolls. You'll prob notice your running off the board alot.
- Guardians have better loadout on them but you'll prob still notice that a BS3 with a single shot weapon will fail you a lot.
- DA on foot are dead, period
- SL on the Falcons you'll want to change up. Your going with a S8 Ap2 and a S6 Ap6, conflicting targeting priorities there. Take either EML or BL
- Fire Dragons in a Falcon your mixing a close range unit with a Long Range gunboat, conflicting purposes. Also this will be a huge threat and downed fast.

eavy Support II Falcon 115 Total: 175
+ Scatter Laser 15, Holofields 35, Spirit Stones 10

Heavy Support III Falcon 115 Total: 175
+ Scatter Laser 15, Holofields 35, Spirit Stones 10

Falcons are not as good as in the 4th ed.
I'd drop them for two Prisms and another War Walker w/ scatter lasers.

Fixed the points. My bad.

I understand on the guardians, they are really there for reserves and if the shooting helps, bonus.

GJB are tougher now, but not enough huh?

I took out the Fire Prisms and basically put the Falcons in to transport the Fire Dragons and the Dire Avengers.

The Dire Avengers are troops and MEQ, so they replace the guardians in the WS with more Fire power.

The Fire Dragons will be opportunity. If there is a LR or Monolith that the enemy is wreckless with, then I will send them after it. If the Enemy shoots at them, then that means the wraith guard and Warlocks have better chances of closing.

If once either of these groups is dropped off, then the Falcon's can provide support. I didn't have the points for upgrades from the Scatter Lasers.

Thanks for the feedback from everyone, mainly Blue Dagger. I will provide a report after the tourney.

GJB main weakness is their Ldr, without a Embolden Lock it's dangerous. Lose 2 and your risking a pricy unit.

6 DA in the falcon isn't bad, but honestly just make it 5-6 regulars. 6 DA with bladestorm won't have enough firepowre to take much of anything down so make it a cheap scoring unit that doesn't get out. DA are far from MEQ (Marines or Equivilent), T3 4+ armor vs T4 and 3+ is light years difference.

The only effective means of taking out a monolith for eldar is warp weapons, Wraithlords, Haywire grenades, etc. Fire dragons will tickle one before they die a horrible death to Gauss Flux.

You have 4 scoring units in this list, Seize Ground has a minimum of 3 objectives. Your 2 guardians packs you'll have to be rather careful with.